Subspace Radio: a Star Trek podcast

Rob: We are back.

Welcome back.

It has been some time since the
two of us have materialized.

Kevin: The ion storm is passing
and I can hear you again.

Rob: We can fi We have finally cleared
through that ion storm back into the

nerdy realm that is Subspace Radio.

I'm Rob Lloyd, and with me
as always is Kevin Yank.

How are

Kevin: Hello.

Hello.

I'm very well.

I've watched a whole series of
Star Trek since we last spoke.

Rob: have I, we set ourselves
as a task of waiting for Picard,

but we did not just sit idle.

We were given the duty to go back
and watch the show that we have

mentioned quite a lot in this podcast.

And finally ratcheted into our
memories now and a part of our, the

ever-growing continuity of Star Trek.

We have gone back and watched the infamous
Animated Series, series one and two

from the early seventies of Star Trek.

Kevin: Yeah, it was the last
piece of Star Trek I hadn't seen,

so now it's all in my brain.

Rob: is big, this is a big moment.

I'm glad to be sharing it.

Kevin: I was feeling more and more
guilty about having not seen it as

Lower Decks, and other bits and pieces
of recent Star Trek have referenced

it fleetingly, and I've gone, oh,
that's something I don't recognize.

No longer.

I will get all of the little references.

Rob: That was the thing.

Most only while we mostly, while we
were doing Lower Decks you were the

one informing me going, actually
this is a particular reference to the

Animated series that I have not seen.

But

Kevin: Right.

Quetzalcoatl in that big lizard
flying creature appears in the

Lower Decks episode where they're
hallucinating stuff in The Mind's Mines.

And yeah.

All the reviews online said That's
Quetzalcoatl from the Animated Series.

I'm like, that seems like a
weird thing to be in Star Trek.

And sure enough, it was a
weird thing to be in Star Trek.

Rob: Yes, it was there.

Kevin: An Emmy award-winning weird

Rob: we will say it again.

Yes.

Star Trek The Animated Series
is an Emmy award-winning show.

Most of the, any other Star Trek shows
that have won Emmy's have won it from a

technical or production point of view.

Whereas Star Trek The Animated Series
won outright in 1975 Outstanding

Entertainment Children Series.

So take that Next Gen,
take that Deep Space Nine.

Kevin: You really should start
with The Animated Series, I

think is what we've learned.

Rob: Yes.

Yes.

Even though it's set after?

Yes.

So there's a fascinating story to be
told about how this show came about how.

Kevin: you wanna start with a story or do
you wanna start with like your high level

Rob: Yeah, I think, I think well
we're dropping our usual format of

talking about the, an episode and
then breaking into the larger topic.

We're gonna give our our
first impression, thoughts.

Then we'll do a little bit of a dive
into how we got to there, and then

we'll pick our favorite episodes.

And yes, we will focus on a clunker.

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: So,

Kevin: Will.

All right.

Rob: So Kevin, it has
been a massive buildup.

We have mentioned it so many times
in our podcast, and, you have been

a Star Trek fan all your life.

But now, finally, in the year of our
whatever representation you believe

in or don't believe in 2023, you
finally watch The Animated Series.

First impressions?

Kevin: First impressions There
were stronger episodes to be had

here than I expected to find.

But the overall feeling I had watching
this was bemusement, that this was

made for Saturday morning television.

Rob: Yeah,

Kevin: Just that somehow a series of
artists was given a budget to make this.

For kids to watch with their bowl
of cereal on a Saturday morning.

It stands out to me as a historical
anomaly the scale of which has not been

repeated in Star Trek history for sure.

Rob: It's it is anomaly because but
it's amazing how actually modern it

is in the way of We are used to now
as nerds and with our IPs and our

franchises and how they go, that we
have multiple media to consume of that,

whether it be novels or comic books or
TV shows or animated TV shows or feature

films or interactive, VR experiences.

And yes, we have just spent the
last couple of months reviewing

two animated spinoffs of Star Trek.

But this is where it all
began in the seventies.

And for this, it was quite unique.

It's long before Star Wars hit the
screens and before Star Wars had

their attempt at spinoffs in animated
form with droids and Ewoks and stuff.

But now it's commonplace.

Like one of my favorite incarnations of
Star Wars that hedge back and forth is

the animated series Rebels, which is set
just before episode one and Rogue One.

And that's produced for kids'
entertainment, family entertainment,

but it deals with some heavy issues.

So going back to watch it now,
after spending so much time within

this animated spinoff world, it was
quite exciting because you're there

going, oh my god, they got pretty
much everyone – apologies to Walter

Koenig – they got the original cast back.

So you are hearing William Shatner,
you are hearing Leonard Nimoy.

You are hearing DeForest
Kelley, you're hearing the

original cast except for Walter.

Sorry.

So sorry about that.

Kevin: Sorry, Walter.

Rob: So to see it's quite now a modern
thing, but then it was so unique.

It

Kevin: Yeah, but I hear what you're
saying about comparing it to the Star

Wars, that there are surprisingly
modern stories or topics being covered

because that's true here as well.

It's, it is clear in every respect
from technical to to storytelling.

They were up against the constraints
of Saturday morning cartoons.

You could tell the vision was large and
they got as much of it they could do in

the time and money they had to put into

Rob: I have found, a lot of the
writers were excited to come back

on board who were part of The
Original Series going, oh, we are not

restricted by, by real sets and makeup.

We can come up with anything.

And then it goes, yes, you can come
up with any creature you want, but

still it's done on a Filmation budget.

Kevin: Yes.

And it has to not not
offend the parents too much.

Rob: Yeah, it was very to read.

They got back on board DC Fontana.

Incredible.

Yeah.

This legendary writer of
television and Star Trek.

And they had her on board as an
executive producer and script editor.

And her main point was, let, because
it's for more family more kids

geared, let's actually make it family.

So let's take out any of that, William
Shana's sex appeal or or oily oily, George

Kevin: stuff slipped through.

Rob: stump did stuff,

Kevin: there were very conspicuous
things slipping through that was

like, that stands out given that
everything else is here is for kids.

But that one lady is borderline harassing.

Captain

Rob: I I'm glad you brought that up.

And I'll be talking about
that a bit further on.

And it's not in my good episodes.

Kevin: Okay.

Very good.

Um, Look the other impression
that I really got here was

the handmade craftsmanship.

Of what ends up on screen here.

Like you can see the layers of film as
a cell moves over a painted background.

And unfortunately that little hair
that was stuck to the cell moves with

Rob: That's my favorite.

Yeah.

Seeing the grit the profile
Enterprise goes across, he goes,

oh, that grit's going with it,

Kevin: Yeah.

and there were a grand total of
four shots of the Enterprise here,

more or less except for the very
occasional episode specific artwork.

And similarly, there were four musics cues
that were used in every single episode.

Rob: not the actual original Star Trek

Kevin: I know it took me so long to warm
up to it because it felt like a bizarro

universe version of Star Trek cuz of the

Rob: That theme was stuck in my
head for weeks, and as soon as I

finished watching it, it's gone.

But I kept on ball it like every
piece of that music, I think there,

there's only three pieces of music
they created and they just repeated

that for the entire number of episodes.

But yeah, there was like, especially
after our talk about the last two animated

series, which had so many beautiful space
vistas and planet shots and all this type

of stuff to go back to that's the profile
image going that way across the screen

and now it's going back the other way.

And that one rather clunky,
but I kind of liked it.

The shot of the ship kind of
swooping in on an angle and going.

Kevin: we go over the

Rob: Yeah.

So you, so it had to
involve perspective and,

Kevin: and I'm pretty sure I don't know
if there's any way to know this for sure

all these years later, but it looks to
me like that was rotoscoped directly

from a shot from The Original Series.

There is a, in the first few episodes of
The Original Series, there's a few places

where we do swoop over the bridge like
that, and it looks to me like they frame

by frame, traced it for the animated

Rob: pretty much it looked like
that and that type of stuff.

I like when they go outside of, cuz TV
animation in the sixties, seventies and

eighties was how cheap can we do it?

And so, especially, especially
Filmation who were, this is the

company long before their success
with He-man and Ghostbusters.

Not that Ghostbusters, the
Ghostbusters, the other one.

Let's go Ghostbusters.

Anyway and She-ra and
all that type of stuff.

So I, I that.

That rotoscoping, that little bit of a
Ralph Bakshi style animation of taking

footage and animating it into real.

I like that kind of
guerilla style animation.

But I'm a big fan of the dark ages of
Disney as well, where they did a lot

of facsimile animation and stuff, which
is looked down upon by animators, but

it's sort a rough and ready way of
doing things, which I but I, that's

my sort of like independent theater.

Kevin: Yeah.

I liked it too.

I think the sh the ship stuff
has aged better than some

of the character animation.

There's definite I think I've
mentioned it before, there are

running sequences where it's a solid
minute of tiny black stick figures

moving across a static background to

Rob: yes.

Kevin: And it's meant to be
gripping, but it is quite fast.

Rob: And, And the repetition.

And the repetition of the extreme
closeup on one side of the screen and

the same shot of Spock looking into
a monitor and slightly looking up.

And if I don't see that that cat woman
with her whispery, creepy, if I don't see

M'Ress ever again, it will be too soon.

So just go.

Kevin: She is the progenitor of
Catian doctor on Lower Decks.

Rob: But, there's just

Kevin: Dr.

T'Ana, way more fun than

Rob: lot more, yeah, a lot more sweary.

She and T'Ana blinks a lot more as
opposed to this one who just stares

with her yellow eyes and whispers.

Kevin: Speaking of the actors, it is
amazing that we got most of the cast back.

Rob: do you, how would
you feel being Walter?

Kevin: I think he would've been
on the list, but he wasn't in the

first season of The Original Series.

And so if someone had to go,
I guess Walter had to go.

Uh, He said I was very upset at the
way I found out I wasn't part of the

show at a convention everybody thought
someone else had told me, apparently.

Dorothy thought Gene had.

Gene thought Dorothy had.

To save money, Filmation wanted
Majel to do Uhura's voice and also

Jimmy to do Sulu's voice since in
cartoons at the time you got paid one

check to do two character's voices.

To Leonard's credit, he said he
would not do the series unless they

hired George and Nichelle since they
had been there from the beginning.

Rob: Yeah, it, see, it's so
weird that, it's been forgotten.

Then it was ridiculed, then it's
been found by us, and I give it a

lot of love, but, and you want it
to, you want it to be what kind of

animation stuff is now, but it's not.

It's at that time when animation was
looked down upon, Saturday morning

cartoons were looked down upon.

It was just a paycheck.

People missed out.

They wanted to keep out, the
African American woman and

the the Asian American actor.

Kevin: Yeah.

Funny that

Rob: Yeah.

And the one of the things I read, Nimoy
brought that up and Filmation went, oh

no, actually we are very much into showing
representation and stuff like that.

So of course, oh we, that was just not
meant to be a blah, blah, blah, blah.

And there going yeah.

It's a shame that you

Kevin: That's the thing about bias.

It's usually unconscious.

Rob: Exactly.

So

Yeah, apparently Filmation said they only
had enough money for that amount of cast.

And also

Kevin: And you can tell because that
cast is doing every other voice as well,

Rob: was, yeah, I was gonna say you
can hear James doing multiple voices.

Nichelle does multiple characters.

Of course Mrs.

Roddenberry had to be in the cast as well.

So we had Nurse Chapel there.

Kevin: Jimmy Doohan in an interview
I have from The 50 Year Mission, the

oral history of Star Trek, he talks
about how the fact that if you did

three characters, they only had to
pay you once, but if you did a fourth

character, they had to pay you twice.

So he was always trying to
get that fourth character.

Rob: Oh my gosh.

Oh the economics of
animation in the seventies.

But yeah, I read like they'd
never recorded in the same studio.

I don't think they even recorded
in the same cities like.

Kevin: Some of the interviews talk
about later in the run Leonard Nimoy

would just drop by a recording studio
in whatever city he happened to be in,

and read his lines to the microphone,
put his hat on and walk to his car.

And that was his
experience of The Animated

Rob: It's very, he's very much
like an episode of The Simpsons

where Krusty just walks in record.

Yeah.

Just speaks all his lines for his
thing and then walks off and they

haven't even put the reel in yet.

Kevin: For the fans, for the writers,
it must have felt like a return to the

thing that they thought they had lost.

For the actors, I feel like it, in many
respects, must have felt like a paycheck.

Just another paycheck.

Rob: Yeah, it does.

It does seem to

Kevin: Because it doesn't
seem like they got together.

It doesn't seem like any of them
were particularly this, the sense

I get is that they were talked
into it and they were like, really?

Saturday morning cartoons?

Is this the bottom of the barrel?

And the creators were
like, no stay with us.

Trust us.

We are doing real Star Trek here with
real stories, stuff that matters.

You're going to be proud of the work.

And they were said, okay,
we'll take your word for it.

And yet the experience was
nevertheless just showing up and

reading your lines in the booth.

Rob: Yeah, it's an interesting thing
because it's been the punchline of

jokes for so long, and I'm guilty of
that, of making fun of The Animated

Series, but never actually seeing it.

But now I've got a little bit more
respect for it, that they were trying

to be so serious that the scripts,
especially that first season, I remember

we talked a little bit that there's a
little bit of a shift in, in season two

to a bit more jovial, a bit more jokey.

Kevin: I found it was, with
exceptions, it was really hitting

its stride by that second season.

There's a lot more bumps and weird
tone moments in the start of this

series than towards the end where it
felt like they had found the formula.

Rob: Well, especially like
that first episode, I'm going.

For me, that first episode was
really hard to get through and just,

they're going, it was very dull.

But then the second episode is
the yes Yesteryear, which is they

go that's what you wanna see.

We want the big vistas of
what Vulcan looks like.

Kevin: Tell some epic stories you
wouldn't have been able to tell

Rob: Exactly and a lot of sequel stuff.

So return to

Kevin: Again, playing
to the kids, apparently.

Rob: Because Yeah.

You know who kids wanna see again?

Mudd.

They

Kevin: That's right.

And Cyrano Jones.

Everydody's

Rob: The kids have been crying
themselves to sleep for years

since the cancellation go.

Whatever happened to Cyrano Jones, Daddy?

Kevin: Walter Koenig was not
cast in the series, but he was

thrown the bone of a script.

The Infinite Vulcan, and you can't see
him, listeners, but Rob is making a face.

Rob: Yeah, I, it almost
made my stinker list.

It was.

Kevin: Walter didn't think much
more of it is what I'm reading here.

This was the one script I wrote for the
show, and it was incredibly frustrating.

Gene decided early on, this is
animation so we can do anything we

want, so let's have talking plants.

And I put in the talking plants
and did 10 drafts of the script.

And at the time, I didn't know what
writers were going through on Star Trek.

I stuck with it and we
finally got it done.

They did in fact offer me another
script and I said, no, I passed.

I couldn't go along with all the
arbitrary decisions that didn't make

the script any better, not that it
was extraordinary to begin with.

So to an extent, it was an interesting
learning experience, but it was painful.

I was also still upset about
not being a part of the series.

Rob: Of course.

So it's heartbreaking to hear how it all
turned out that it, of was, just thrown

together and they just had to work with
the money they had, and they had the,

like you said, big plans, big sweeping,
epic ideas in their head of we can go

anywhere, we can have any creature,
any location that we're not limited by

Kevin: did get that here.

There is a lot of that

Rob: They, they do try to have
so many non humanoid creatures to

have two non-human crew members.

Kevin: Not all of it successful.

There are some things that, it's
true you couldn't do them before

and you can do them now, but should
you do them is a separate question.

Rob: So I'm very interested to
hear because you're so in tune with

The Original Series, how you found
those nods, those sequel follow

ups and those references that have
now carried on because there are

some things that were mentioned.

That's the type of stuff I love, things
that were mentioned in The Animated

Series that have now become canon.

Kevin: Yeah.

Equal part hits and misses
is what I would say.

There are some things that it was
like, wow, a sequel to Shore Leave.

I did not, I would never have asked for
this, but it feels like Christmas morning.

And then there were other things
that felt rather thin and didn't

add anything that wasn't already
present in the previous series.

I thought the Tribbles episode had some
yucks for the kids, but did it add a

lot to what triples give to our lives?

I don't think so.

I think I would rather go back
and watch the original episode

Rob: We did found out we had, a massive
like Voltron tribble so well, yeah.

So their big mind is we can
have whatever budget we want.

Let's make tribbles bigger!

Kevin: And speaking of Harry Mud, like
the second episode of The Original

Series, was rapey enough and they
thought, you know what we really need?

You know what we really need to return
to is Harry Mudd and his date rape drugs.

Rob: Yeah.

Look it's it is a shame that
when you go back to watch

this go, oh no, that's right.

This is in the height of the seventies.

This is the height of, patriarchal
privilege and scenes of Nurse Chapel.

Kevin: You don't get it.

It's better because it's Nurse
Chapel who is date raping

Rob: Exact.

See, that's better.

And, but

Kevin: It's empowering.

Rob: But she's so easily
manipulated by the guy.

No.

She's not manipulated.

She's taking the power like scenes
where she's like drowning when

they're miniatures and she, the
only way she, the only way that she

can get out is being saved by Kirk.

And you're going, oh, yeah.

Kevin: Just looking at my other notes
about like the origin of this series.

My, my closest reading of what
I could find is that, this came

about really part of a ca of the
campaign to bring back Star Trek.

Ever since it was canceled in the third
season and the fans wanted more, gene

was looking for how could it return?

Could it return as another series?

Could it return as a film?

None of that was happening, but
there was just this little crack

that opened up in NBC's armor and
someone said, we need a strong entry

for NBC's Saturday morning lineup.

And I think probably when it was
first suggested, let's bring Star

Trek to Saturday morning cartoons.

It's doing surprisingly well in
the young demographics in reruns.

I bet the kids would love a
Star Trek show made for them.

That probably made sense.

Somewhere between that idea
and what ended up on screen.

There were some negotiations and Gene
Roddenberry managed to pull in just

the right amount of favors and he got
full creative control, which was really

unusual for cartoons at the time.

It was, my understanding is unusual for
Roddenberry at the time, who had burned

some bridges and the relationship with the
studios was strained already, but somehow,

some way he managed to get a commitment
of full creative control on this.

And he said, great, we've done it.

Now we're gonna forget that we're
making a Saturday morning cartoon.

We are making Star Trek again.

That is what we are here to

Rob: unofficial season four.

Kevin: Yeah, and I.

We will never have the ratings numbers
or the memos from the studio to prove it.

But my guess is what happens is this
thing went out to Saturday morning and

died because it wasn't made for the
audience that was watching at that time.

So the world did get a secret fourth
season of Star Trek, but a as, as we

learned in our own experience, almost
no one watched it, not even us fans

and and so much the poorer for it.

Rob: Exactly.

Yeah.

And it had to be, it wasn't, if it wasn't
for Star Wars then this new lifeblood

of the show wouldn't have happened.

And it's the constant thing
about Roddenberry as well.

So like his, that balance of his
belief in the show and his fight for

it, but also the bridges he burns.

And so it got to the point where, he had
a lot of control in The Motion Picture.

And because it didn't do that well, then
they went complete other angle and he was

pretty much shut out like unceremoniously
with Star Trek two and became, the

greatest Star Trek movie of all time.

But it went so far away from
whatever Roddenberry was so,

had his vice-like, grip on this
is what Star Trek needs to be.

And it, yeah it's fascinating to see that
the animated series is just a continuation

of that cycle that he gets power.

He, he burns bridges, he builds up that
power again, he burns more bridges.

It's a fascinating, little glimpse
into the how that man worked

within the creative industry.

Kevin: The second season is only
six episodes, which to our modern

eye looks like oh, that's bad.

Like, they got, They got a big
first season and the network pulled

the plug after just six episodes.

They didn't even get halfway
through the second season.

What my research tells me is that
after the initial large-ish order,

animated series were made and
approved in batches of six episodes.

So it is normal for season
two to be six episodes.

That is a full second season
as it was made at the time.

Nevertheless, they did
not get renewed for.

Rob: Right.

Does it diminish after that?

So then season three
is only three episodes,

Kevin: Would just do
six, six more at a time.

And it had to do with lead times
and scheduling and stuff like that.

Dorothy Fontana and Gene Roddenberry,
the two main creative forces of the first

season stepped away in the second season.

And so a lot of the interviews from
Dorothy say, I don't really know.

I can't speak for the second season.

It might be bad, it might be great.

I had no creative input.

Rob: And different director as well.

They had like how Hal Sutherland
for the first season and then

Bill Reed for the next six.

Kevin: And she, she says, all I
know is that they did a bunch of the

scripts we rejected in season two.

But I, I think it turned
out surprisingly well.

The one kind of creative force that seemed
present throughout is David Gerrold, who

fans will know as the author, the writer
of the original Trouble with Tribbles.

He came back and wrote two episodes
of this series, but but he was

there from beginning to end and
was there for the whole ride.

Rob: Yes.

And I like that type of, tho those
connections of of the writers who

were part of The Animated Series
staying on and they was very much

top heavy in that first season with
so many of those classic writers

coming back and Yeah, it's a shame.

Not all of them stuck around.

Kevin: My only other thought is the.

Getting the lingo of Star Trek, like
what does the language sound like?

What does the terminology sound like?

It took them a while to
get back into the groove.

Those first few episodes are
really heavy with unusually

specific scientific language.

Like they didn't quite have
the technobabble pinned down.

It was a little too techno.

A little too sciencey.

Rob: Very dense.

There are some moments where they're
using like really hardcore science terms.

I'm going,

Kevin: It felt like someone had they,
it was their personal mission to make

Star Trek more scientifically accurate.

And the animated series was
where they were let loose.

And it was a it just made it awkward
is the word that comes to mind, but

it was, yeah, it took, you, took me
out of it that these characters were

saying things that did not sound like
things they, those characters would say.

Rob: No, and it did sound like I
have a sci scientific prognosis.

Oh, and I have a scientific
read to add to that.

I go, oh, scientifically
it could be this as well.

I'm going, Woohoo.

Come on.

Kevin: It's not the science
that makes Star Trek

Rob: Yeah, exactly.

So let's go into it.

Let's let's do an episode we like each.

Kevin: I mean, there's
there's so few episodes here.

There's 22 of them.

I feel like we could just one by one,
count them down and if we come to one

that is one of our favorites or one
of our we could talk about it at that

Rob: Let's do it.

Kevin: Alright Number one,
Beyond The Farthest Star,

you groaned about it earlier.

Rob: It was so dull.

I'm there going, whoa.

This is where we're starting.

A ship that's been dead for however
long and just looking at it going,

oh, what happened with this?

And there and,

Kevin: I wrote Pace is shockingly
slow for a 30 minute cartoon.

Rob: Yeah, they're going.

Are we still?

Oh wow.

We are only five minutes in.

Kevin: It felt like they couldn't quite
believe they were making Star Trek and

they forgot to bring a story to the

Rob: Yes, very much

Kevin: Alright.

But not a high or a low for either of

Rob: No

Kevin: Yesteryear number two.

Rob: Really good one.

Really.

Yeah.

A nice little reference to the City
on the Edge of Forever and, going

back into Spock's past and that great,
it's a great thing, especially with

uh, Next Generation and stuff like
that, where they talk about, ugh, oh,

Kirk, and he's traveling back in time
and they're like blase about it, like

Kevin: Yeah, let's just do it.

Rob: And he goes back
and he meets himself.

So there's no paradox there.

He is just an uncle,

Kevin: That's right.

I remember myself.

Yeah.

It's amazing.

Rob: His pet is incredible
and they killed the pet!

Kevin: Yeah, know, but that is a
good thing in the right context.

Treated with the right delicateness for
kids to watch on a Saturday morning.

Like There's, that is a life experience
that kids are gonna have to face.

And having seen dispassionate
Spock deal with it, maturely is a,

it's a good learning opportunity.

Rob: And did they

Kevin: I don't know if you'd call it fun.

Rob: No, it was very much leaning
into, this is an episode that

could have been on The Original
Series if it weren't animated.

But yeah the detail of the,
like the almost like tiger type

pet was fascinating to see.

Did they actually get Mark
Lenard back to do the voice of

Kevin: did Mark Lenard!

I did not know to expect another Star
Trek performance from Mark Lenard

posthumously to enter my world.

And wow.

That was a

Rob: he was great.

He's a wonderful, wonderful.

Kevin: Yesteryear is frequently
called out as the best episode

of The Animated Series.

It was the one I was my hopes
were up for, and I don't know if

it's because my hopes were high
that I found it a little lacking.

It still had some of those shaky
legs of the early episodes of this

series that I was talking about.

Rob: For me, it came across as,
oh, as I was watching it, I was

there going, this would be one that
the fans would really hook into.

But yeah, it was a little bit
still figuring its feet out.

Kevin: Number three, One
of Our Planets is Missing.

Rob: Yes.

How did you um, feel about this one?

Kevin: I thought it was very much like
an Original Series episode, probably

because it was a mashup of two of them.

It was the Immunity Syndrome, the
giant space amoeba, and was Devil

in the Dark, "NO KILL I", Horta.

Was really like those two.

What if we take what's good about two
great episodes of Star Trek and mash

them together to make another one.

So it was all right.

It was three episodes in, it
was already the second time they

threatened to self-destruct the ship.

And so I would call it
a middle of the pack.

Not bad, not great.

Rob: Yes.

Yeah.

The only note of it, it was about the
self-destruct thing that we talked

about a couple of episodes ago.

So, yeah, so it, it's canon
for us, for our podcast.

But other than that,
nothing of note really.

Kevin: Number four, The Lorelei Signal.

Rob: is the big one.

This is a big one that
we have mentioned before.

This is it's a little bit Brigadoon,
but it's also a little bit, that's

what happens when the women take over.

Kevin: Yes.

The men are incapacitated by a sexy
signal and the women have to save the day.

Rob: Yes.

Yeah.

And of the women as in the two
women on the on, on the, so it's

Kevin: Majel Barrett and Nichelle
Nichols have to save the day, and

one of them is playing four parts.

Rob: Yeah.

Yeah.

We are hearing that voice in so
many different pictures and tones.

Kevin: There was a scene in which
Uhura talked to the computer that

was also Uhura, and then talked
to another character that was also

Uhura, or it was all Nichelle Nichols.

She played three voices in one scene
talking to each each other, and I only

noticed it the second time I watched
the episode, which is a testament to

her ability to do multiple voices.

Not every Original Series
cast member has that skill.

Rob: did very well and that
she in many ways she's close to

being the MVP of this series.

The multiple voices she did
and how different they were.

Yeah.

Jimmy Doohan, You need a bit of work.

Kevin: For all that.

Not a great

Rob: No, look, that's the thing.

It's it's something we were looking
forward to and excited about because

this is the one where, the only way that,
that Uhura can actually be the position

of third in command is that the men, all
the men are incapacitated by sexy aliens.

Kevin: And the way she saves the
day is she disobeys one order, beams

down and asks the men what to do.

Rob: Yes.

Yes.

Yeah.

It's it's that clumsy view of the future
from a very dated way of doing things.

There's a classic Doctor Who story
from the sixties with Patrick

Trouten that got so far to being
made, but was canceled at the end.

It's called the Space Prison, where it
goes to a planet where, good lord, all

the women are the dominating power.

And the female companion gets caught up
by their radical thinking, where women are

the top dogs and the only way for her to
be broken out of their hypnotic phase was

to be smacked on the bottom by the doctor.

So thankfully, that
episode was never made.

Kevin: The plot of this episode makes
about the same amount of sense, I'll say.

Uh, Number five, More
Tribbles, More Troubles.

Rob: I You sure it's not called
Mo' Tribbles, Mo' Trouble?

Kevin: Might?

Were there are a lot of mustaches?

Rob: Yes.

So the, we got the Klingon here
in their old fashioned type of,

almost sounding a bit piratey.

Nah, here we are, Kirk.

Kevin: That's how Klingons were back

Rob: They were, they
were very much like that.

So just a good reminder for
me to go, oh, that's right.

They were very

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: of mustache twi.

Kevin: Like I was saying
before, I felt this was much

more forced than the original.

It was it, they were a little too
self-satisfied with how good the original

episode was, and it was just like, if
they reference the same jokes and give you

a bit of a wink, wink, nudge, nudge, it
makes a good story and it doesn't really.

This was not a story that needed to be
told is what I wrote to myself here.

It was a cheap rehash of what
made the original one popular,

but for what it was, it was okay.

There were, ships flying
around machinations.

They had the tribble eater and
then they had the giant tribble.

Yeah, there was some fun to be had, but

Rob: and it's a bit, again,
I'll say the word clumsy, like

at this point the Klingons were
just like pretty much pure bad.

So they're, but the butt of all jokes.

I think there's another one as well with
the Klingons or the Romulans and like

at the end it's just a case of, oh well
they're gonna have to deal with it now.

Wah wah.

I'm going, no, they've actually
been left in a very dangerous

situation and Oh, okay.

No, we're joking about it.

Okay.

Cuz they're bad guys.

Haha.

Yeah,

Kevin: Ah, the next one is number six.

We haven't hit any of our
tops or bottom episodes yet,

Rob: no, I'm very interested to,
I'll see if we have a have a jinx

and whether we hit the same one.

Kevin: The next one is the
Survivor, number six with Carter

Winston, or was it Winston Carter?

I kept getting confused.

The guy had two first names.

Rob: That Yes, that's it.

The what?

Pretty much you're correct on both fronts.

Kevin: Yeah.

I'm frankly, I am looking up this
episode because it was that memorable.

I can't

Rob: Yeah.

I'm a bit like that as well.

Kevin: This is the one where they rescued
the famous guy who turned out to be a

shape shifting alien spy from Romulans.

Rob: he found his previous wife,

Kevin: girlfriend who ha,
just happened to be on the

Rob: happened to be and never

Kevin: Wife.

Wife or girlfriend, I
can't remember which.

Might have been fiance.

Rob: Yes.

And then it's revealed that he's a
shape-shifting spy and he's trying

to break up with her and Yeah.

Yes.

That's all I remember as

Kevin: There was a moment in this
where bones was surprisingly not

grumpy, and it was a plot point.

Kirk and Spock know how many bio beds they
have in sick Bay, better than McCoy does.

So the Shapeshifter was hiding as
a bed in sick bay, and McCoy didn't

notice, but Kirk and Spock did.

I kind of love how many white women
Nichelle Nichols played in this

series, but no Uhura in this episode.

There was M'Ress though, so I get
the sense they, some, they needed

something for Majel Barrett to do
every episode, and sometimes that meant

playing M'Ress, even though Nichelle
Nichols was present for the episode.

Rob: Look, it is a little
bit of that glorious nepotism

coming through right there.

They're going, Roddenberry's going,
gotta make room for the wife.

Come on.

Kevin: interesting choice to have the
Romulan battle cruisers still share a ship

design with Klingon ships, even animation.

Like that was something they did to save
money in the original series, they reused

the models and shot them with a slightly
different colored light on them, so

they looked bluer and therefore Romulan.

And the fans made up a story that
the Romulan stole the technology

or bought the technology from
the Klingons, whatever it is.

But here you, here you got the
opportunity to draw anything you want.

And they drew the same ship
design just with a dif, like

a lightning bolt on the side

Rob: Yeah, exactly.

They just want, that's what we've used.

Instead of going, let's
think big about everything.

Yeah.

It is a bit limited with
the way of imagination goes.

Kevin: My favorite line is Well, he's
a shape shifter, so one would have to

assume he could become a deflector shield.

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: And for all that the my parting
thought on this one, the Spock McCoy smack

talk at the end almost made the whole

Rob: Yeah, very much they're

Kevin: This was the first time they really
leaned into that in The Animated Series.

They remembered what they had with
Spock and McCoy, and they, they

did a full on comedy bit between
the two of them at the end here.

Rob: It was a great way
to finish a, alright.

Yeah.

a forgettable one.

Kevin: Number seven, the Infinite Vulcan.

We've already talked a bit about this

Rob: Yeah.

This nearly got on my bad list.

I'm just there going, why
do we have giant Spocks and

Kevin: had heard rumors about a
giant Spock of a Spock Two, and

I read about it at some point
and I thought, that is stupid.

And then I immediately forgot it until I
was confronted with it in this episode.

Surprisingly little Spock in an
episode entitled The Infinite.

Rob: Yeah, I think it's a balance thing.

So time wise they spread him
out through the whole episode.

I really hope this gag works.

So because they had less time for
him, that means he could go taller.

Kevin: Oh, yes.

It's amount of Spock by square

Rob: Yeah.

It's, yeah.

It's the body mass has to be shifted

Kevin: Yeah.

He gets carried off by a screaming
dragon, and those things came back

again and again with this same
sound effect played over and over.

But yeah, Spock gets carried off
at the start of this episode.

Then most of the episode goes by and
then we meet giant Spock at the end,

and Spock talks Spock out of being

Rob: Yes, of course.

It's, yeah, it's,

Kevin: The giant scientist who was
evil, but then not evil and for some

reason he is wearing a loin cloth.

And it's very strange

this.

Rob: It's very odd.

Yeah, it is weird.

And yeah,

Kevin: Walter Koenig, you are forgiven.

Rob: are forgiven and most of it you had
to rewrite anyway, so we'll blame Gene.

Kevin: This one had the super awkward Sulu
joke at the end where Kirk says, Sulu,

you're one of the most scrutable people
I know, which is leaning into the racist

stereotype of the inscrutable Asian.

Rob: Yep.

Oh, joy.

Kevin: Uh, Number eight,
The Magicks of Megas-tu.

Rob: Now this was weird, right?

This was like

Kevin: Super weird.

This was Lucifer.

Rob: Lucifer that they're dealing
with, gender and sexual politics

aside of how limited it was.

This is like dealing with
let's feel sorry for the devil.

Kevin: Yeah,

Rob: It's weird.

It was so weird.

Kevin: It is weird.

This is my clunker.

Rob: That was your clunker.

Kevin: this is my clunker.

The Enterprise meets Lucifer
at the center of the galaxy and

crosses over into a realm of magic.

Spock figures out that if you
squint hard enough, you can

do magic in this magic realm.

Eventually they end up being
tried as witches in Salem.

Rob: In Salem.

Yes, that's right.

Yep.

Kevin: And the only other thought
I wrote here is there's a lot of

pseudo religious nonsense here.

Rob: It's a lot.

It's not, yeah.

For me, it wasn't even pseudo, it was
very ham-handed, ham-fisted, hardcore

religious stuff thrown in there.

And it did not match at all.

Kevin: This is Star Trek V,
several decades earlier, and

Rob: Well, clearly they couldn't remember.

Kevin: It's the same bad
idea, but compared to this.

They did it surprisingly
well in Star Trek V.

Rob: Yeah.

That's the thing.

Clearly they must have forgotten all
about it because if when uh, Shatner

approached with the script, they would've
gone, oh no, we did that before, mate.

It wasn't good, but they
clearly forgot about it.

And they went, yeah, okay let's
give, no, let's appease Shatner.

I don't think anyone was excited about it.

They just went, okay,
let's just write five off.

Kevin: If I never see Lucien, which is
the name they gave Lucifer, to make it

palatable to the censors, if I never see
Lucien extend his arms again, it will

Rob: much of that.

Oh my gosh.

And spelling magic differently.

Was that something to do
with the censors as well?

Yeah,

Kevin: it's weird.

Yeah, I mean there is some interview
fodder on this one of just like,

whenever anyone went to Gene for ideas
he wanted to do, the crew meets God

and the network said, it can't be God.

This is Saturday morning television.

And he said, how about the devil?

And they said, can you
give him a different name?

But no bad one.

This is my worst episode

Rob: yeah.

It was pretty much in my clunkers
as well, but there's one a bit

later on that I just went, Ooh.

Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah.

Number nine.

Once Upon a Planet, the sequel to Shore

Rob: Now I haven't seen Shore Leave.

So how was this for you?

Kevin: Tonally very similar.

Like this is very faithful to the so tone
set by the original the crew beamed down

to a planet that is seemingly idyllic.

And then immediately start
having apparently visions of

things from their imagination.

Bones is thinking of Alice in
Wonderland and the giant rabbit

bounces by, followed by a young
blonde-haired girl chasing the rabbit.

And quickly these imaginary thoughts
become real, get a little out of

hand, someone gets stabbed but it
turns out it's okay because the

entire planet is an amusement park.

And y the planet's systems
will repair any injury and it's

all a big misunderstanding.

And at the end of it they
go, wow, it's amazing.

And Bones is standing there with a
woman on either arm that have been

conjured for him by the planet.

They're both wearing.

Apparently pom-poms, like their entire
costume is made out of skillfully placed

pom-poms and as much skin as possible.

And uh, Kirk goes, this all checks out.

Beam the whole crew down.

End of episode.

That's Shore Leave.

Rob: All right.

There you go.

Kevin: Yeah.

And this is it is.

I thought it was fun.

It is.

The Original Series is intended
to be not taken too seriously.

There are some good character beats
in The Original Series where you

get to see what these professionals
imagine or fantasize about.

So the, it's another one of those like
forcing characters to let down their guard

by revealing their innermost thoughts and

Rob: Of course.

Kevin: Kirk has fist fight with his
nemesis from the academy who tells

him he's a, he was a walking pile
of books and needs to loosen up.

So there was a lot of that in Shore Leave.

I think there was a little
of that missing here.

It was much more plot driven
than character driven, this one.

Rob: Yes, and anytime there, Star
Trek, lean into, literary inspiration.

So whether it be Shakespeare or Peter
Pan or Alison Wonderland, I'm happy.

And it's also sort like that proto version
of, and it's mentioned the little line

later on of that kind of representation
of what the holodeck later becomes.

Kevin: This for me might
have been the high point for

Uhura in The Animated Series.

She has a one of those Kirk style
debates with a computer where she tries

to convince the computer that they are
wrong and should change their ways.

Sadly, the computer is not convinced
by Uhura, but it's a great speech

and I thought gave her more to
do and more agency than we got

Rob: Yes.

We're, it's a sad state of affairs when
we are reaching for those highlights.

But yeah, Nichelle Nichols was
powering on as the champion she was.

Kevin: Yeah.

Uh, a couple of awkward long pauses
where it seems like they might

have been in filling time, but
otherwise, a solid episode with

a lot of fun stuff for the whole

Rob: Yes, it was, it's not one
of my favorites, but it was

definitely one of the better ones.

And they're starting to
pick up that momentum of

understanding what they can do.

Kevin: I'd say if you were a fan who
enjoyed the original, this I'd bump

this up a notch for nostalgia as well.

Number 10, Mudd's Passion.

Rob: We've we've talked about bringing
back old Mudd to really show what

decade our gender politics is.

Kevin: Yes, he brings the, what I wrote
as the heteronormative love potion, where

he goes out of his way to say that between
a man and a woman, it creates love.

But between a man and a
man, it creates friendship.

Rob: That's right.

That's damn right because that's
all there is in the way of things.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's uh,

Kevin: uh, Yeah, not my clunkiest one, but
I would not go outta my way to watch this.

Mudd is true to form.

If you enjoyed the performance of
Mudd, you get more of that here.

He is pitch perfect for all
the good and bad that brings.

Weird that the Enterprise
uses ID cards all of a sudden.

Mudd steals Nurse Chapel's ID
card in order to make his escape.

Rob: Yes, that's right.

Kevin: McCoy is sitting at a bridge
station out of nowhere in this

episode, and it's not commented upon.

There's just suddenly a shot
of McCoy sitting at what

looks to be Uhura's station.

And love drunk Spock is the worst acting
I have ever seen Leonard Nimoy do.

don't know what happened

Rob: it is, it's quite embarrassing.

It's quite awkward about and how
aggressive he is and how much he wants

Nurse Chapel and who, yeah, My Chris.

Yeah, that's, it's yeah.

Kevin: He must have been given
a bum steer in direction, cuz I

know he can do better than that.

And it, it was really painful.

It pulled the whole episode
an already struggling episode.

It pulled it really down.

Rob: Yeah, I was checking my
watch a number of times to

see how much longer we had.

Kevin: Number 11, The Terratin Incident.

Rob: one, I can't really remember that

Kevin: This is the one
where they get tiny.

Rob: Oh, okay.

Now I remember.

Okay.

So yeah, this is the one where
Nurse Chapel can't save herself.

Kevin: Yeah.

And and Kirk has to throw a needle and
thread that happens to be lying around in

Rob: It happens to be
lying around in sick bay.

Of course, they've gotta

Kevin: he

Rob: they've gotta stitch
up some cuts, don't they?

Kevin: She's in water, and Kirk throws
effectively an ultra sharp spear at

her in the water in order to save her.

And.

Rob: heroic.

That's

Kevin: You see him throw it
and it cuts to her saved, like

we don't know what happens.

Something good happens.

Rob: They ran on money.

They, there was an elaborate
sequence all worked out.

I did the it, the quite
juvenile thing of going.

Clearly they're shrinking,
but they go, no.

Maybe the ship is growing.

Kevin: Maybe the ship is growing.

Yeah, that's a, that was like
a mind blowing for me as a kid.

That would've been mind blowing,
sitting there Saturday morning.

I've been like, whoa.

The ship could be growing.

Rob: but no, they go with

Kevin: They were shipping,
they were right the

Rob: Yeah, they And that would've
been more interesting in many ways,

the ship growing bigger and bigger.

Kevin: Oh, we'll get to the
giant Enterprise soon enough.

There is a weird shot of a dude with
a mustache, a seventies mustache,

and another guy with glasses.

The crew is getting ready to beam up.

Like the crew that has been kidnapped
off the Enterprise, and they're

being held hostage in the tiny town.

They're getting ready to beam up and
the transporter will fix everything.

That is the thing that happens again
and again in The Animated Series is

the transporter cures everything.

But they're g they're getting ready
to beam up and it's just a static

shot of three people and one of them
has a seventies mustache and the

other person is wearing glasses.

And I was like, hold the phone.

There is a story here.

It turns out those are three
of the animators on the show.

They got permission to put
themselves in the show.

Rob: Excellent.

Great.

Kevin: And then the end, at the end,
it is clear they really ran out of time

or money because somehow Kirk orders
the ship to fire on the tiny city that

they have said they're gonna help.

They're like, we will help you.

Just give us our crew back and send
us all the dilithium you got and then

we'll, we will work something out.

He gets his crew back, they've been the
dilithium on board and then Kirk orders

the ship to fire phasers at the city.

And I'm like, what?

That seems pure evil.

And sure enough, the ship fires
phasers at the city and the city

appears on the transporter platform.

All I can gather is someone got
confused between phasers and

transporters and it got a little
too far and it was too late to fix.

Rob: Yeah.

Yeah.

That's what happened.

That's where it went.

Kevin: what happened.

Number 12, The Time Trap.

Rob: Yes.

Now this is

Kevin: This is the Enterprise
and a Klingon ship.

Both get stuck in a dimension that
is full of other trapped ships.

It's like the Bermuda Triangle.

And they've all learned to live in harmony
because they've all decided they're never

getting home, and time does not progress.

So none of them age either.

So it's this community of previously
warring races all stranded together

and they've decided they've formed
a government and they've made

Rob: Yes.

They had the, like the head
of each representative council

was Yes, I do remember that.

Yes.

Kevin: But The Enterprise and
the Klingon ship connect up and

use their engines together to
warp out of there and get home.

But it's almost foiled by the Klingons
doing their dastardly deeds and

being tried on penalty of removing
their ship's power for many years.

Rob: Again, that's yeah.

One are clearly not that memorable to me.

Kevin: George Takei plays
a Klingon captain and it's

unconvincing is what I wrote here.

This is where I went.

Okay, cool.

Not everyone has the talent or
experience to convincingly create

multiple characters for an animated TV

Rob: Yeah, look.

Yeah.

Nichelle Nichols is the MVP of that, and
all the boys are sadly falling behind.

Kevin: Jimmy Doohan does a
decent job if you ask me.

He does a lot of different characters.

And in an interview I read, he was jazzed
at the fact that generally he didn't

put it on an accent for any of them.

He just put on a different
quality of voice.

So he was having a lot of fun creating
characters without Scottish accents.

Rob: I'm glad he had a f
I'm glad he had a fun time.

Kevin: I rate this as a solid episode,

Rob: There's some good
look from what from Yes.

Thank you for going into detail, not
just for the viewers, but for me as well.

Yes, I did like that concept of all
these warring races that were, it's very

Star Treky of going, we're trapped here.

No, time is, time means nothing here.

So we have to work together.

Kevin: It's a beautiful dilemma.

It is like, here is the peace that
feels impossible in the galaxy.

They made it work.

And we are going to do our
darnedest to get the heck outta

here cuz we we wanna go home.

Rob: We cannot stay here.

This is like far too boring.

Kevin: Number 13, The Ambergris Incident.

Lots of swimming.

Rob: Lots of swimming, lots of stuff that
you'd never be able to do in live action.

Big sea snakes and venom extraction
and Kirk and Spock and not

being able to breathe oxygen.

So they have to stay in, they
had to convert areas of the

Enterprise to be filled with water.

And they sound perfectly normal
even though they're under water.

Kevin: it is on paper.

It should be a really great episode.

In practice, it was lots of swimming
and debating and then swimming, and

then more debating and more swimming.

It was it got tedious for me, it was
good to see McCoy get some speeches

as he worked through the medical
puzzle of Kirk and Spock's mutation.

Like this for me was first time
we got to see McCoy doing his job

Rob: he was very doctory in this.

Yeah, very doctory going.

How do we solve this?

How do we figure this out?

Kevin: Yeah.

A novelty, but not especially good.

This one, I think.

Rob: Yeah, it came across a far more
kiddy than it should, even though

it was like boring stretches of
talking and discussing and stuff.

But that's a whole thing of let's turn our
characters into now underwater creatures.

It's very, Mario putting
on a penguin suit if,

Kevin: Yeah.

They, yeah.

Anyway, number 14, The Slaver Weapon.

Rob: This was really good.

Kevin: Oh yeah?

Rob: I like this one

Kevin: We might disagree
for the first time.

Rob: And it was particularly
interesting cuz there was no Kirk

and so it was just a way mission.

So it was Spock, Uhura and Sulu uh,
out on their Runabout and finding a

Kevin: I did like that fit, that made it
felt like a Next Generation episode to me.

There are a few great Next
Generation episodes that are

like, we're away from the ship on
our shuttle or on our Runabout.

And it's a odd combination of
characters and we got that here.

It felt ahead of its time in that respect.

Rob: And this is adapted by Larry
Niven on his own story the Soft Weapon.

Kevin: Yeah.

Great, great Star Trek
writer, Larry Niven.

Rob: Yeah.

Yeah I like the, there was a, yeah,
there was just a confidence to it.

There was a the, and seeing the dynamic
of those three characters who, you

know, especially with Sulu and Uhura
not getting that many episodes in the

forefront, but to have the three of
them out on this away mission was great.

And there's a definite threat there
and a definite developing of the

history of a culture, which I kind of

Kevin: I think what hurt this one in my
eyes was that the, what happened again

and again and again in this episode was,
it's let's see what the next setting does.

Oh, it's also a disappointment.

Um,

Rob: it like that.

Kevin: it was a long buildup to
a punchline That was pretty good.

I don't, I won't spoil it for people
who haven't seen it, but let's just

say this is the only episode of The
Animated Series that has confirmed kills

Rob: Yes, that's right.

Kevin: Yeah, but it took a long time
to get to where it was going and it

was fairly repetitive in the process,
but I did like many of the elements.

Rob: Yeah.

Yeah.

There were elements I really liked about
it, and that's one that definitely stuck

out to me of the away mission and the
writing definitely seemed a lot, more

confident and definitely understood
the characters of Star Trek more.

Kevin: Not one of your two best though.

Rob: Not one of my two best.

The next one is one of my best.

Kevin: Number 15 I of the beholder air,

Rob: Oh, look, I'm a huge Twilight
Zone fan and I love those type of

episodes where it's like a step in.

The bazaar and the odd for 20
minutes or so, and then you get out.

And so this one explores, something
that's been explored in the Twilight

Zone before is, humans in a zoo.

Kevin: Snuffleupagusses.

Rob: The, and I love the creatures.

I love the big red
snuffaluffagus characters.

And even the baby was huge
and Scotty having to learn

how to communicate with it.

And a lot of talk about these creatures
are eons old and that, that great

human entitlement of going, but when
zoos are kept for animals, he goes

Kevin: guess

Rob: Guess what?

To this species, we are the animals.

And just things like always observing
them and could get inside Kirk's mind.

There was great oh my head acting
of uh, Shatner, which was great and

the, and at the end they go cuz they
were telepathic uh, snuffeupagi.

And that moment of going, they, we might
be ready for them or we might be ready

for them in two or three millennia.

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: And Kirk goes well, there'll
be somebody else's problem.

Kevin: So much of what this episode does
ends up being cliche in Star Trek, but

it was fresh at this time, and I agree.

This is a great episode.

I love.

This is a Kirk Spock McCoy adventure.

The three mains beam down, and
there's plenty of bickering and

it is entertaining throughout.

The writing here was pitch perfect.

This, to me, is the best characterization
that we get in the animated

Rob: Very much so, and they're
all playing their roles.

So you've got, Kirk
going, but what is this?

And and Spock going.

This is, not everything's
all about you, Jim.

And McCoy going, whoa, shut up.

You man.

You square.

Kevin: I admire the restraint
never to let us hear the

telepathic thoughts of the aliens.

Like we're told they're telepathic.

There are long lingering shots of
these two pink snuffleupagus on the

screen looking really silly, but
they're having deep thoughts at each

other, and we are left to imagine
what deep words they're exchanging.

A, a less confident show would've employed
someone to do an echoy voice with a bit

of theramin behind it to tell us what
they were saying, but instead, it's left

to the imagination and it elevates it

Rob: Oh.

And it was that for me, it was the perfect
representation of the animation that

you would never get creatures that size
and that design who are so non-human

in the live action Original Series.

So to have that moment of these are
huge, you see the scale of them.

And I love that, that classic
cliche sci-fi thing of going

we're the, we're not animals.

Well to them, we are.

That, that type of stuff.

That type of stuff I love.

Kevin: Yeah.

Okay.

So that's one of your first best.

I agree with that.

That's a four outta five.

It's right up there.

It's not quite my best though.

Number 16, The Jihad, our
season finale for season one.

Rob: From the highest of highs.

We go to the lowest of lows.

This was my clunker.

Kevin: Okay, go for it.

I want to hear all

Rob: Um, Look, I love the idea of a
range of aliens trapped on a planet.

All different types.

So we had bird boy, we had green
slug, we had monobrowed Amazon woman.

But it's, even with the title
Jihad and with the grossly outdated

gender politics stuff there.

And it's just like trying to do
this whole epic quest type thing.

And, but it just seemed to going
from we're just walking and, oh, now

we're flying, now we're driving and

Kevin: Here comes the lava drive faster.

Rob: Now, oh, here's the sachet.

And and, you could spot the, the
betrayer a million miles away.

So there, there's a lot
of awkward stuff in there,

Kevin: This is the most Saturday
morning cartoon episode of the series.

And I think it, it speaks volumes that
makes it your clunker in many ways.

This has, oh, let's go up on the hill and
push that boulder down to block the lava.

Like it is very comic
like pulp comic stuff.

Very broad strokes.

And the brief was apparently
like, make as much adventure

happen in 30 minutes as you can.

Rob: And despite DC Fontana's best
efforts to keep out the sex, the the

creepy Amazon woman constantly just
going, Hey, Kirk, how you going, there?

You are.

Kevin: The most charitable reading
I can give of it is that it was

boundary smashing at the time that,
that the creepy person cracking on

to other characters would be a woman.

What?!

Like that's as charitable a take I can,
as I can get on this, but it feels frankly

out of place on a show for children.

Rob: You're right.

It's very much like Tar.

It is the equivalent of Kate
Blanchard's performance in Tar.

It should be given an Oscar.

What?

No.

I was at Tar, was originally written
as a male character and then they

went, no, let's flip it and make this
horrible conductor type, abusing their

position of power, make it a woman.

Kevin: I don't get that reference.

So on the one hand I kind of wanna watch
it, but your testimonial is not strong.

So maybe I won't.

Rob: Oh, look it's getting all
the acclaim in all the regard.

Unlike Jihad, the episode.

Kevin: Much was made at the time of the
mature themes in this episode and it

wasn't the uh, super randy woman, it
was the talk of Holy Wars and Jihads

and these, which were very political
concepts at the time in the world, and

kids being presented with those ideas.

Mommy, daddy, what's a Holy War?

Like the makers of the show were feeling
like they were running some risks with

prompting those kind of conversations at

Rob: You, yes.

And it seems, I don't know if it's
my sensitivity or white guilt or

anything like that, but those type
of terminologies and stuff like that

seem to be in better suited in the
hands of, of people connected with

that culture as opposed to white
culture going, ah, let's do this way.

Kevin: And also, it's one thing to
decide to take a swing at mature

concepts like that, but to do it in
such a juvenile episode of television,

it doesn't do it any justice.

Rob: have it in the background while
you're focusing on let's push this

boulder, let's chase this lava.

I did like the, the
bird-like creatures, though.

I wish they could appear in some
way, shape or form in live action.

Kevin: It really stood out to me against
all the other episodes of The Animated

Series that like they brought all
their guest cast into this one episode.

Most of the other episodes of The
Animated Series, there are the familiar

voices and then there are the episodic
characters that are also voiced

by the same actors, more or less.

You might have one unfamiliar voice.

This one, it was like, let's take let's
take Kirk and is it Kirk and Spock?

Yeah.

Let's take Kirk and Spock and
surround them by a bunch of strangers.

That are all voiced by guest actors
that, like what I wrote here is were

they cheaper than our regular cast?

This seemed to me like what the intent
for the series originally must have been.

That you get Kirk and Spock
and you surround them with

some voices of the week.

Rob: And do a lot pushing over boulders
and chasing lava and all that type

of fun adventure stuff, as opposed
to let's do hardcore sci-fi stuff.

So maybe it's also the end
of season type of splurge.

Kevin: Yeah.

Maybe it was the, maybe they had some
guest stars they made promises to.

They'd already been paid and they

Rob: summer.

Somebody else's wife or
husband or loved one.

Yeah.

Kevin: Season two, number
one, The Pirates of Orion.

This is one of my two favorites.

Rob: explain.

Kevin: The opening of this episode is
that there is a disease on board the

Enterprise, but McCoy says, I cured it.

It's fine.

I'm really proud of myself.

Just recording a log as my victory
lap for having cured this disease.

And then Spock drops out cold
on the bridge of the Enterprise.

Turns out Vulcans are not
as immune to this disease as

McCoy thought they would be.

Kirk calls for help from sick
bay, even though McCoy is standing

next to him on the bridge, which I
thought was especially cold of McCoy.

I'm sure it was a mistake, but
what my read of it is that Kirk

knows that McCoy is not gonna lift
a finger to save Spock's life.

Low budget animation jank aside, I
thought this was a strong episode.

It would've gone down like a lead
balloon with the kids watching

Saturday morning cartoons, though.

But it was clearly a team determined
to make more Star Trek at any cost.

The fight to save Spock life by engaging
in a subtle manipulation of these

Orion pirates who needed to save face.

There are like three concepts
there that most kids watching, it's

gonna go straight over their heads.

The idea that the Orion's
have stolen something and we

know they've stolen something.

They know, we know they've stolen
something, but neither party

can say you've stolen something
because then Spock will die.

Instead, Kirk has to go through
this charade of letting them off the

hook and preserve their neutrality.

And then eventually they beam down to
a planet and have a fist fight which

every good Star Trek episode needs.

The bomb is diffused at the last minute by
b beaming the dilithium on board the ship.

And then the Orion captain tries to
commit suicide with a cyanide capsule

and they prevent him from doing it.

So he has, he no longer has any
reason for his ship to self-destruct.

His ship is preparing to self-destruct,
so there is no evidence of

their guilt, but they've managed
to capture the captain alive.

So the captain calls the ship and says,
cancel the self-destruct we've lost.

There is this is such it is more
complex than nine out of 10 Star

Trek episodes, and I am here for it.

Rob: There's a lot of, yeah, and
showing that the cleverness of Kirk to

manipulate and play the situation while
still working on the clock of going,

we've gotta save we've gotta save Spock.

So there's a lot there.

And the culture of, the Orion Pirates
and their honor and all that type of

stuff to have explored this heady stuff
for a 25 minute animated kid show.

Kevin: Yeah, absolutely.

This episode was written by the
youngest writer in Star Trek history.

He was a 19 year old college
student when he submitted his

script on typed on loose leaf paper.

I'm showing a picture of
that to Rob right now.

It's amazing.

The creators of the show
called him up and said, huh we

haven't seen your name around.

What else have you written?

And he is like, uh, I'm a college student.

I've never written anything in my life.

And they said, that's fine.

It's a great script.

Rob: And that's that's Howard Weinstein.

Kevin: Yeah, it's awesome.

Rob: Well done Howard on a
great opener for season two.

Kevin: Yeah.

I loved it.

The Pirates of Orion, they look weird.

Like they are, there is a, you could
tell that there was a changing of

the guard in the creative leadership
because they mispronounce Orion as

Rob: That's right.

Kevin: Even though they are by all
by all accounts, meant to be the same

green skin aliens that we have seen
previously in Star Trek history, and

that we now see in Star Trek Discovery.

But they're all wearing like swim, like
scuba suits and masks and goggles in

this episode for no apparent reason.

And they have blue skin instead of green.

But but yeah it's let, that's the jank,
that's the low budget jank I was talking

about, but underneath that surface
is a really strong Star Trek script.

Rob: And that's the thing.

That's how I missed the connection because
it's mispronounced an they're blue and

I'm there going, yeah, I missed the
whole, it went completely over my head.

No, they're the Orions, remember the

Kevin: They're the
they're the Tendi Orions.

Rob: Uh, and yeah, and like we
talked about all the Orions, now

all the males are like really
buff, apparently square jawed.

Yeah.

Kevin: Episode two, bEM.

Rob: Yes.

I don't remember much about

Kevin: This is the alien
that can split himself into

Rob: Yes.

Oh, that's like the top goes off running

Kevin: And we've had a return
of that species in Lower Decks.

We've had a Lower Decks
guest star that is, yeah.

He's like the the trainer who
is putting the crew through

the holo deck simulations.

And we can see that his species has been
assessing the skills of Starfleet crews

for many years by that time, uh, tracing
way back to this episode in which yeah

he deliberately gets himself captured by
some primitive aliens who are referred

to as Aborigines in this in this episode.

Rob: That's right.

I do remember that.

Kevin: And yeah, gets himself trapped.

And then when Kirk and Spock get
captured as well, trying to rescue

him, he goes, wow you are incompetent.

This was a test and you failed.

Rob: That's right.

And they need to figure out, because
they don't know what the first,

that he can separate his body

Kevin: That's right.

Yeah.

So he gets through the bramble bush by
separating, he's a colony character.

There's the funny gag in the start where
they beam down and Kirk and Spock beam

down over water and fall in the water.

So he jumps in and then he
disconnects his bottom half to

go and steal their communicators.

Rob: Right.

Yes.

And then the little tentacle
things come out and take it out.

It goes we don't have our
communicators anymore, Spock.

Kevin: Yeah.

There's some good parts here, but it adds
up to a pretty weak episode in my mind.

Rob: I'd go with that too,

Kevin: some

Rob: because I barely remembered it.

You explained it went, oh, that's right.

I do remember that.

Kevin: There's a, this is a stronger
example of Uhura taking command, cuz

she does take command and then Scotty
wants to go down and rescue Kirk

and Spock against orders and Uhura,
speaking to a superior officer says,

Nope, I'm, I was left in command.

We have our orders.

We are not deviating from those orders.

She quotes regulations to
Scotty and it's a power move.

It's really good.

Uhura or Nichelle Nichols also plays the
voice of the sparkly cloud god creature

at the end that's really upset that they
are all uh, interfering with her children.

Rob: That's right.

Yes.

Kevin: Yeah.

So Nichelle Nichols gets a good
outing in this one, but that's about

all I can say for this episode,

Rob: So next up we go
to The Practical Joker.

Kevin: The Practical Joker.

Rob: Now for me, this was another
one of my uh, top choices.

Kevin: Ooh, wow.

Okay.

Rob: I really liked the silliness
of the practical jokes and everyone

laughing and the fact that great
reveal of it's actually the ship,

it's the computer, the, the, the, The
computer has, developed, gone awry.

And it, yeah, there's, there
was just something in it.

It was a breath of fresh air for me.

And I loved that type of,
that Star Trek awkward.

It's sort like their approach
to sex, is their also their app

approach to a sense of humor?

I'm, they're going, I don't
know if anybody on this

crew has ever laughed before

Kevin: Ha.

Ha.

Ha.

Rob: They have never used those
muscles in their body at all.

But there was something, cute
and clever about this regimented,

serious, exploration team,

Kevin: I agree.

This is the only time we got to hear
some of our original series crew laugh,

and some of them I don't need to hear it

Rob: Never again.

No.

That that one, one was too many, but

Kevin: I agree.

This is a fresh one.

I think this for me is the most successful
example of what Star Trek, if written as a

Saturday morning cartoon, could have been.

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: It was not taking
itself too seriously.

It was having fun.

It was playing with very broad
strokes, but that, that worked here.

The ship creates a blow up balloon version
of the Enterprise that's much larger

in order to scare off the Romulans.

And it works!

Rob: But and the episode does end
with an awkward thing of the Romulans'

computer starts getting the same thing

Kevin: The Trouble with Tribbles all over

Rob: Yeah.

And they do the whole, oh Romulan

Kevin: We'll tell them
how to fix it later.

Rob: Now, was it in this one where
they were, there were some people

in something like a Yeah, yeah,

Kevin: This, I wrote an impressively
full formed division of the holodeck,

unlike the other week when we were
talking about holodeck episodes.

And I said, the first couple of Star
Trek, the next generations where

they did a holodeck story, there was
a lot of characters standing around

in wonder at the technology, and
the story was put on pause for a few

moments while people said, wow, it is
amazing that this is even possible.

They moved past that much more quickly in
this episode into making it normal for the

characters and therefore magical for us.

Rob: Yes.

Yeah it covered a lot.

It had that holodeck, it had the, I like
a mischievous computer reveal as well.

Like it's you.

The ship, the thing that keeps
us safe is actually turning

against us is a wonderful idea.

And yes, hearing these humanoids
do something called laugh for

the first time ever is a joy.

So yeah, I really dug it.

I liked the breath of
fresh air that it was.

And yeah, that's one I'd go, I'd
actually go back and watch that again.

Kevin: Yeah.

Great.

Episode four.

Rob: This was a good one as well.

Kevin: This is my other favorite

Rob: Hey

Kevin: Uh, Albatross, in which
McCoy previously cured a PLA or

worked to cure a plague on a planet.

And they come back expecting everything
will be fine, and everything does go

fine until they're just about to beam
up, and they slap McCoy with a warrant.

Rob: And they're so polite
about it going well.

This has been a pleasure being here.

Kevin: if you have a moment for one
more thing, you're under arrest.

Rob: We have a letter for you.

Oh, yes, you are public enemy number one.

Kevin: That's right.

We've been holding our
tongues this whole time.

Rob: Oh, we can't believe
we're happening now.

It's we've done so well.

Kevin: Um, And, they capture McCoy.

And basically this culture is reputed
for swift justice slash show trials.

And the fear is that McCoy is going to
be put to death for his crimes against

this species because he is accused
of basically causing uh, a, a plague

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: that wiped out their sister planet.

And uh, the Enterprise racing the clock
goes to the sister planet in order to

figure out, find some evidence of McCoy's
innocence, which they take on faith.

And I kind of love that, that it like,
that is some classic Star Trek, where

not a moment is spent contemplating
the possibility of McCoy's guilt.

It is just like, well,
obviously he's a saint.

Let's go fix this.

Uh, friends looking after friends.

Rob: They just go.

Who would never do that type of thing.

Let's go.

Is this the episode
where everyone goes blue.

Kevin: Yes, the plague is one of
the big symptoms of the plague

supposedly, is that people change
color from this to that to the other.

And it's like yellow to green to

Rob: right.

And it doesn't affect Spock
cuz of course it doesn't.

Kevin: Of course it

Rob: Cuz he is green blooded vulcan.

Kevin: But yeah the ship flies
through a suspiciously colorful

nebula on the way, and then it
flies through the same suspiciously

colorful nebula on the way back.

And it turns out the changing
colors is a false symptom.

Like it is something that happened at
the same time as the plague and was

assumed to be a symptom of the plague,
but in fact, it was a red herring.

And as soon as you told the computer to
stop trying to match against changing

skin colors, the computer was able to
identify the plague and synthesize a cure.

And I just really that is a plot twist
that feels like it could have been

overdone, but I've never seen it before.

Rob: And it's always good to have
a bit of the, the characters' past,

and to talk about McCoy before he
was on the Enterprise or stuff like

that is always good to have that
expansion of our characters so that

how they lived and breathed before
they had the safety of the Enterprise.

Kevin: It's not lost on me that my
two favorite episodes are racing

the clock to save the life of
one of our favorite cast members.

The, it was Spock in the Pirates
of Orion and it's McCoy here.

That, that does seem a little over
done by this point, but it's okay.

The series was about to end,
so I'll give it to them.

Rob: Yeah.

It is the, third last
episode, so well done.

Kevin: I thought the aliens here
were really interesting too.

Like they had the novelty of being
completely different from like they

had, they were humanoids, but with
completely different proportions.

Really big detailed heads and really
stompy elephant feet and It was, and

yet they were very full formed, like
their face moved in interesting ways.

They went beyond the novelty of let's
draw something funny looking, to,

it felt like they actually thought
through how would these things move?

How would these things speak?

Rob: Yes.

And their culture as well about the
politeness and the rituals and the rules

that they follow and their guidelines that
they, we will have you on our planet for

this time, but at the very last moment
we will bring out the thing that we've

been wanting to do this entire time.

And they're just like,
this is our procedure.

This is how we do things.

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: And great title as well.

Great

Kevin: oh, yeah, exactly.

Rob: The final two.

Kevin: How Sharper Than a Serpent's Tooth.

Episode five.

This is the one with Kukulkan.

I said Quetzalcoatl before,
but I meant Kukulkan.

Rob: That's, yes.

And this was, yeah, they just happened
to have a crew member who is yeah.

He has never shown up

Kevin: He's a Native American,

Rob: American.

And it's related to his culture
and it takes the form of Kukulkan.

Kevin: It seems that is what won them
the Emmy here is that representation

of Native American culture in the
future was as groundbreaking as

having a black woman at comms and a
Japanese man at at the helm like that.

It was that level of breakthrough for
representation at the time that Native

Americans had a place in the future
and they hadn't fully assimilated into

white people culture in order to do it.

Rob: And especially within American
culture, especially watching from

the outside, Australia we are uh,
incredibly guilty of what we have done

to our in, our First Nations culture.

But as what I noticed from the outside
with the US it's, yeah the Native

American cultures and nations ha are not
really, never have really had a voice.

You know, it's always the, obviously
the injustices of the slave labor

and all this, and slave slavery and
all that type of stuff, and the civil

rights movement and white on black.

But the the Native American culture
and race, like you hear the languages

of all the Native American cultures
are dying out because the youth

aren't learning it, and that's
happening here in Australia as well.

And so to have, yeah, this represented
and it's a little bit clumsy with Chakotay

um, how they try to bring that in and
he's not actually a Native American actor.

So yes, I was a little bit I took a
step back at the start going, this

seems white people trying to white write

Kevin: Slightly tokenistic
in hindsight, for sure.

Maybe more than slightly,
like they lay it on pretty

Rob: As in it's, yeah,
it's the representation of

Kevin: Never seen before, never

Rob: seen again, that

Kevin: and the plot of the episode
just happens to have to do with

recognizing Native American culture.

Rob: for the only time a Native American
crewman is on the deck at that time.

So it is the definition of token.

But yeah.

Reflecting on it, it goes, look,
it's better that they did it

as a tribute and an honor as
opposed to not doing it at all.

Kevin: Also won a Peabody Award in

Rob: Oh, that, Hey that's
nothing to be sniffed at.

Kevin: But yeah, this episode has this
really cool looking ship that kind of

looks like a dragon, and then it takes
on this holographic mantle around it

that really makes it look like a dragon.

And then it turns out it's
being flown by a flying dragon.

So there's dragons upon dragons here
introduces himself as Kukulkan, returned

to to take care of his children once more.

The primitive people of Earth.

He, sorry, he's daddy
stepped away, but he's back.

Rob: had things to do.

He had to go out for some cigarettes.

Kevin: Yeah, but he will only not
kill you if you can solve his riddle.

And he, he gave us all the parts
to solve the riddle before,

and he was very disappointed
that we didn't put it together.

He's gonna give us one more try.

Now that you know there's a
riddle, see if you can solve it.

And they solve it in like 30 seconds.

It's like the most basic video
game riddle I've ever seen of

there is a pyramid and there are
four mirrors on swiveling statues.

What should I do?

Let's try pointing the mirrors
at the top of the pyramid.

You solved it.

My children all is forgiven.

Rob: You're a genius.

You're a genius Kevin.

Yeah, the the color
scheme for this is great.

There's some beautiful, colors and
representation here to outside of the

usual color schemes that they had.

Yeah, there's.

Kevin: of weird animals.

Like he's got all the other primitive
animals stuck in like fantasy

worlds in glass cages on his ship.

So return of that primitive
species captured for a zoo like

this is it's starting to get done.

It's done after this.

That's what I'm gonna say.

Rob: Let's do one more episode
and then never do it again.

Kevin: Of all the times Star Trek has
done the a God from ancient history

turns out to have been an alien visitor.

That trope, and we've seen it many times.

This is one of the more successful ones.

Rob: agree.

And it's got dragons upon dragons.

So the more dragons the better.

Kevin: And the final episode, season two,
episode six, the Counter Clock Incident.

Rob: Right with the famous old, captain
admiral, who we've never heard of

before, shows up with his wife and they
start getting younger, but then they

Kevin: Robert April.

Rob: That's right.

But he decides at the end no.

We don't want to go young again.

We want to be,

Kevin: We've lived a good life.

Make us old again.

Rob: and because of their bravery.

You know what?

Because he's gonna be obsolete.

Which is quite telling, considering
they explore that in the movies in the

eighties about, yeah, about the obsolete

Kevin: The old warrior captain ready
to retire, but needed for one more

Rob: One more mission and determining
whether he's still worthwhile

or whether he can still, get
back on that horse and ride in.

And yes.

Some of the dialogue is very awkward and
it matches the awkward animation of the

couple standing there look like going,
yes, this is what we are doing now.

And now we're relevant.

No, we're getting younger.

You are so beautiful.

Kevin: Uh, Robert April was one of
the original names considered for

Christopher Pike in the original pilot.

So the the writer's Bible when the
series finally got off the ground,

had some names of past captains of the
Enterprise, and Robert April was in there.

So they were tapping like a little known
detail of Star Trek lore that hadn't made

it to screen yet, which was great to see.

Rob: Do we know his
positioning of where he is?

Was he

Kevin: He was before Pike it was

Rob: he immediately before.

Right.

Okay.

Cool.

Cool, cool.

Kevin: Yeah.

I believe that's correct.

And and we get to see Robert
April again in the premiere of

Strange New Worlds last year.

So the guy who's the black admiral who
comes to visit Christopher Pike on his

ranch and say, your ship needs you, Chris.

That is that is also Robert April.

Rob: That's right.

And he

Kevin: did, uh, colorblind
casting and he's great.

Rob: And he was in it again in a later one
when they're trying to do the negotiations

and, and they're doing the checklist.

So the B plot is the checklist.

Yeah.

Kevin: But the detail I had no idea
to expect was that his wife was Chief

Medical Officer on the ship at the same
time, and they like served together.

Rob: Well, there you go.

Kevin: That's gotta break
some Starfleet HR regulations.

Rob: For Gene Roddenberry, it's totally
part and parcel with writing Star Trek.

Am I right?

Getting you.

Yeah, look for the, like as a final
episode, there's a lot more put into

what a final episode is cuz we've
been so used to now what the modern

definition of a season finale is.

But at this point it was just a case of,
this was procedural television as in you

write a story, you finish it, you finish
up your number of episodes for the season,

and then you move on and you come back and
you do the exact same thing the next year.

So there's no sort of like,
build up no story arcs.

No.

Yeah.

Especially putting all that onus
onto a character we haven't seen of.

It's beautiful to have that sort of
continuity tip of a hat, but they

take the major focus in this final
episode with the lead characters

taking more of a supporting role.

Kevin: I think this episode came in hot.

There's some notes in the book that I
have of Star Trek, The Official Guide

to the Animated Series, where the writer
of this episode was on staff and knew

there were six slots and knew they had
filled five of them, so he had to submit

the script today or he might miss out.

And so I think some of that rush
is visible in the final product.

There is a lot of befuddling logic in the
reverse universe that they go into that

causes everyone to start getting younger.

It is very tortured, and my read of
it is all there just to justify the

gag of getting to see younger and
younger versions of our, of familiar

cast members Uhura and preteen Spock.

It's like the vi the sight
gag is neat, but they have to

take a real long walk to get

Rob: Yes.

Yeah.

And it's, again, it's one of
those, childhood animation gimmick.

So like now they're underwater,
so there's an underwater version.

Now it's the baby version,
now it's the giant version.

Yeah.

So they didn't do a really do any body
swap ones, but they transformed the

bodies into many different variations.

Kevin: There is an echo of Discovery
like the latest season of Discovery,

there are a number of scenes of
exposition where our characters all

stand around a giant galactic map and
explain the plot that is about to happen.

And that happens here.

They stand in front of a giant
galactic map and they point at stars

and they're like, that one's gonna
turn supernova in our universe at the

same time as the other one is gonna
be a new star in the other universe.

And if, because those two things are
happening at the same time, we'll be

able to travel between those two points.

And was like, oh gosh.

I guess you explained it,
but it was not worth it.

Rob: Yeah, don't overthink it too much.

Just look at the pretty
colors and move on.

Kevin: The ship flies
backwards for some reason.

Like they could have done a lot
more waving away of the attempt at

science here and created more time
for a satisfying story, I thought.

Rob: I agree.

And so it does leave a
bit of a, oh, that's it.

Now we're done.

Hmm.

Kevin: Yeah.

But baby Uhura sitting on
the bridge is pretty cute,

Rob: It's very cute.

Very cute.

You cannot deny that.

Kevin: So there you

Rob: that is it.

There's.

Our blow by blow.

Kevin: I I have a parting question for
you, Rob, which is does it hold up?

If someone out there is listening and
like us a few weeks ago has seen a lot

of Star Trek, they like a lot of Star
Trek, but they've not seen The Animated

Series, do you recommend the experience?

Rob: Look.

Yeah.

You've asked two different things.

I recommend the experience because
as a completist Star Trek now

I have to go back and watch all
the other ones that I've missed.

Yes.

So there is some elements in there that
you need to see and moments you need to

go, oh, this is good, and you need to
go through the same cringes that we did.

It doesn't hold up, sadly.

I wanted it to be so good, and I think
I'm warped by how modern animation of

spinoffs of our shows are now after,
especially coming off Lower Decks and

Prodigy and my love of Rebels and Bad
Batch and Clone Wars from Star Wars.

I'm in that head space where I'm
going, that's what I expect and

I was wanting this to go well,
especially cuz they're going so

much of the original cast is back.

So much of the original writers, I know
their mentality of what they're going

for and what we've been finding out, at
every obstacle there was just something

getting in their way and the cast didn't
want to really be there and cast who

did want to be there, got to write
and they didn't want to be doing that.

So there's all these obstacles
taking away from the experience.

Yeah, sadly it doesn't hold
up, but it is it, I will say

it's not, it is now essential.

It is essential watching.

Kevin: Yes, certainly modern Star Trek has
leaned back into some of those stories and

pulled some details forward and therefore
like settled any question of is it cannon?

Did it really happen?

The, that decision is made now.

This is real Star Trek and it's
what Star Trek was at the time.

For all of its faults and
all of its highs and lows.

Rob: It was trying things.

There are some new ideas in there.

There's rehashing old cliches.

There is an incredibly outdated
and, quite infuriating issues of,

gender politics and race and all
that type of stuff that we have seen

with watching The Original Series.

But what it was striving for and
what it was reaching for beyond

the constraints of its, the society
it was in is admirable to see.

Kevin: As a true fourth season of Star
Trek, what the best praise I can give it

is that the worst episodes are no worse
than the worst episodes of season three

of the original series, and the best
episodes are right up there with the best

that Star Trek gave us in season three.

Rob: Yeah, I'd say that as well.

And there are some embarrassing episodes
of Star Trek from the nineties, from the

naughties from the last couple of years.

So it's not a case of this is an anomaly
of embarrassing cringeworthy stories

or embarrassing moments of going, oh
god, I can't believe they did that.

I'm going, oh, I've watched . I've
been catching up on Picard.

So there's some moments where I'm
going, I have the similar thoughts that

they had while watching the animated.

Kevin: There, there are
some good ones here.

There have been suggestions that
this series should be remastered or

reanimated using the original voices.

Having watched it, I
would say don't do that.

On the whole, there is more le that
is best left to history than is worth

bringing into the present of production
values, but there might be one or two

or three or four bright spots here
that if they as a one off as a bonus

feature as an internet web episode, if
they did want to apply the Lower Decks

2D animation polished version to it,
I would definitely rewatch it in that.

Rob: Yeah.

It would be interesting to see as
a bit of, coming up to the 60th

anniversary of Star Trek, maybe a little
bit of a little treat for the fans.

Take one or two of the particularly
special ones and give them a bit of

a, an update, keeping the original
dialogue and actually have the opening

credits with the actual theme music.

Imagine that.

Kevin: Imagine that.

Rob: So that's it.

That's it.

We've gone from going to talk about
one or two of our good ones and one

or two of our worst ones to just
going through every single one.

Your memory was amazing.

Mine was disappointing.

Kevin: That's okay.

You did it without notice, Rob.

I am, I marvel at the attempt.

Rob: Thank you so much.

So this was our way of
filling in hiatus from

Kevin: Yes.

Next time we speak we will be arguing
about whether Star Trek Picard,

season three is living up to our
increasingly unreasonable expectations.

Rob: Look, and I'm looking
forward to, you yeah.

Me doing this podcast.

I had to go through and watch season
two of Picard, which I had been

told not to watch, and I'm watching
it going All right, I can see why.

Kevin: Low expectations
can help though, Rob.

Rob: Low… Oh, look, yeah, they did help.

I actually enjoyed more of it
than I thought I would, but then

I get to the ending where I'm
there going, what are you doing?

Why are you embracing Q
like he is an old friend?

This does not make any sense.

But yes, I am looking forward to,
yeah, the expectations are high.

Everyone is going no, season
three is, this is, do or die.

And, uh, it.

And if in doubt, we've got Strange
New Worlds coming out at some point,

and we've, as you just said to me,
Prodigy season two is coming at

Kevin: Confirmed for 2023.

We're not gonna have to wait as
long until we see what happens next.

Rob: Oh yeah.

And there's also the final season
of Discovery and yeah, but I've

gotta catch up on that as well.

Damn you Kevin Yank.

Making me watch the stuff
that I started watching.

Kevin: See around the galaxy.

Rob: see you around soon.

Looking forward to getting
back onto some new Star Trek.