Subspace Radio: a Star Trek podcast

Kevin: Hello and welcome
back to Subspace Radio.

It's me Kevin.

Rob: And me Rob.

Kevin: This week, we're looking at
Lower Decks, season three, episode

three, Mining, the Mind's Mines.

They do those kind of
titles just to mess with us.

Rob: I think so.

Yeah.

It's very much a tongue twister for all us
nerds out here doing reflections online.

They're going.

Yeah?

You want to talk about us?

You gotta work hard for it, baby.

Kevin: A sciencey episode
for sure, this week.

Both plots were science based.

Even if they didn't end up there.

We had the story of the mines on the
planet Jengis IV with these psychic

mines that make your fantasies come
true and then turn you to stone.

Rob: Another week where Star Trek
and fantasy comes up, but we will

not be discussing that further.

We're gonna make it a long tease, Kevin.

Kevin: No one had any actual
sex in Star Trek this week.

So I'm holding my ground.

Rob: That's very true.

And there was just a
lot of sexy talk about…

Kevin: Speedy McWheels!

Rob: You know what we
haven't done a lot of?

We haven't focused a lot on Rutherford
or Tendi, so it's good that we've got a

whole B plot story about Tendi finding
her way training, to be a science officer.

Kevin: More Rutherford.

More Tendi.

I love their vibe.

I think Tendi is my favorite
character on Lower Decks.

Rob: She's definitely got that
great positivity and energy

that isn't annoying at all.

It's infectious.

And yeah, it's great cuz especially
when you look at it, they all four of

the main characters are all nerds in
their own way and they all express it in

different ways, which I absolutely love.

Kevin: Tendi really wants to take a test.

Rob: Well look, and wouldn't
you rather take a test than

hang out with that bird brain?

Kevin: Dr.

Migleemo.

I enjoy the fact that you're not
supposed to enjoy that character.

Rob: Yeah.

Well, That's a whole other topic as
well about Star Trek and psychology.

Cause in this one they're very
leaning much into the way of, yeah,

we don't really like this guy.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly.

I think I, what I like about Tendi
is she has got that relentless

positivity, but so many characters
that have that aspect to them come

from a place of like obliviousness.

Like they're too dumb to know any better.

And therefore they're
relentlessly positive.

But Tendi is obviously wicked smart.

She's the first one gonna get
promoted to an officer job.

I am sure.

Rob: I particularly like the fact
that they do challenge her as well.

So she's had to step out of her comfort
zone so many times, and she has evolved so

much as a character that, she just doesn't
get everything her way and not everything

is easy for her, which I really like.

Kevin: Her positivity is there most
of the time, but when she shows up and

realizes she's gonna be training with Dr.

Birdbrain today, she gets
bummed out, just like we would.

Rob: There's some really beautiful little
Lower Decks lines that I particularly

grabbed onto, especially Boimler's lines
where they're going, "We do get up to a

particularly large amount of shenanigans."

Kevin: Yes.

Rob: Any time when shenanigans
is brought up, I'm very happy.

And how…

Kevin: They mentioned shenanigans
and then they all talk over each

other referencing past episodes.

Oh, it was that…

Rob: …and there's that time of this, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kevin: I actually had time to go back
and watch this episode a second time

this week and that confusion about,
does the Cerritos have a bad reputation?

It is very well written that when you
watch it the second time, it does play

the other way, that the crew of the
Carlsbad are looking up to them and they

don't want to be seen as slacking off.

So they say, "We've heard how
you do it on the Cerritos.

We don't slack off."

But what they're saying is
we don't slack off either.

Rob: Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kevin: So it sounds like a criticism,
but it is actually admiration.

And I love that it plays both ways.

You don't get writing that subtle in a
typical— typical Star Trek story, even!

Rob: And they do hide it behind things
like Beckett's girlfriend there going

settle down with me in full werewolf mode.

And Boimler saying.

I think you should go
back to your therapist.

Kevin: It has the subtle
and it has the gross.

They're both represented.

Rob: It has clown Klingons
with bat'leths for arms.

Very cool.

And one of the, one of the
deepest cameo cuts I've ever seen.

Kevin: Leah Brahms?

Rob: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

I had to go do a thorough Googling.

That's not a euphemism, okay Kevin?

I had to do a—

She was talking quite provocative
about doing some research.

Kevin: Geordi LaForge's would be…

Rob: …would be girlfriend,
yeah, in hologramatic form.

Kevin: But yes, I am the kind
of fan who, the moment I saw the

beauty mark, I went "Leah Brahms?"

And the next line was "Leah Brahms?"

Going back to the ship and Tendi's
mission for her science officer's

training, I really loved the idea
that the challenge for a science

officer is getting the attention of
people who don't care about science.

Speak for science.

Be the voice of science.

Rob: And again, taken out of
her comfort zone and she rises

to the occasion beautifully.

Kevin: She smashes that pyramid real good.

Rob: She smashes it so good.

And rewatching it the second time, the
first time I watched it, the look that the

scientist and the indigenous species gave
each other was gave a look of oh what's

going on here, but the second time you
watch it going, oh no, they're in on it!

It was a really lovely moment to pick up
those little details second time round.

Kevin: It's so good.

It's it's a short show, but
it's worth watching twice.

Rob: And the one thing that I was really
noticing, I like this exploration of

finding out more about how the Federation
actually operates as a social entity.

Because you hear this stuff
all the time, the Enterprise is

the flagship of the Federation.

So to have Lower Decks be
able to have Federation people

talk about each other's ship.

They gossip, they complain,
they think that Boimler's a

little computer, little robot.

Kevin: Yeah.

I love the idea that the Cali
class gossip about each other.

Just that visual at the start
of the episode, behind the title

card, of the three starships in
formation above the planet surface.

The other thing we get with animation
is some visuals that would usually

be too expensive to do in a casual
shot like this in a small episode.

But there we go, we see the
USS Hood floating above the two

Cali class ships, each of which
has a different color scheme.

And it's just, it is beautiful.

A lot of the kind of panning shots of
the two remaining ships that were used

as establishing shots throughout this
episode, they really took my breath away.

There were moments of light glinting
across the saucers there that I just

thought those are some beautiful
ships and this is animation.

Rob: It's really good that they take
that time to enhance the show that way.

And it's a, it was a beautiful opening
shot to literally show what happens

when, okay, all the big work is done.

Kevin: Yep off…

Rob: So the big ship
moves on the next one.

And it's the first episode I think I've
seen in a long time that I can remember

that has the traditional cold opener.

Kevin: Oh, yeah.

Rob: Normally they do a little gag at
the start and then go into the credits.

But this was a traditional cold opener.

You didn't see any of the lead characters.

You saw the threat come about, and
it ended in that heightened moment of

oh, good lord, and it had the alien
species show up and nod approvingly.

And then it cut.

They do that in so many regular,
genre based TV shows, or even

in regular procedural shows.

But that was the first time I can
really tell that they, drop that type of

traditional cold opener for Lower Decks.

Kevin: So speaking of where things
started, like I said earlier, everything

in this episode started with science and
that was my inspiration for what we could

talk about this week on Subspace Radio.

That is a uniquely Star Trekky thing,
that stories start with a scientific

enterprise, if you'll forgive the term.

That people are out there for
science and then something

goes wrong and drama happens.

Rob: At the time when Star Trek
The Original Series came out, the

Western ruled television and film.

And so sci-fi was this novelty.

But it was sold as, stage
coach or wagon train in space.

So it was there's certainly, and
especially The Original Series, that

that sense of what a Western is.

So like space, the final
frontier, is like the wild west.

And and I always look upon, the
science colonists are out there like

the extreme pilgrims going out to try
and change the indigenous culture.

And they're not protected by,
the towns that are establishing.

Kevin: It's a, very similar…

Rob: Yeah, it's a long,
it's a long bow maybe, but…

Kevin: Yeah.

It all comes down to exploration, yeah.

Where did you wanna start us?

Rob: Do you have anything
from the original series?

Kevin: I do not have anything
from the original series.

Rob: I'm gonna go to, for me, the biggest
of these science colonists going out,

on the frontier of space, without the
protection of the Federation, really.

So they're really pioneering
scientists trying to push new things,

with disastrous consequences, but
starting with honorable intentions.

I'm going with Star Trek
II: The Wrath of Khan with…

Kevin: Ooh!

Rob: …Dr.

Carol Marcus and her scientists
on the Genesis project.

Kevin: Of course.

Yes.

Rob: On Regula I their,
station/laboratory, and as she

says, can I cook or can I cook?

Kevin: So they are building the Genesis
device, which will terraform a planet

near instantly, and there's the famous
industrial light and magic CG fly-by,

the first use of CG in a feature film.

Rob: Incredible sequence of showing the
entire planet evolve from barren wasteland

to just flourishing, healthy environment.

Kevin: But they get themselves in trouble
because their scientific device is also

a potential weapon, and it attracts the
attention of some unsavory characters.

Rob: Yeah.

Yeah.

And so it's that whole case of, the
best version of science in science

fiction is they start off with
honorable intentions, they try to play

god and then it serves them right.

Kevin: Shouldn't have used that
proto matter, David Marcus.

Rob: Exactly, David, you
deserve to get stabbed.

Oh my god.

Take it back.

I take it back.

I can't believe I said that even in jest.

Kevin: They walk a fine line with this
story, because during that CG fly-by,

Carol Marcus is narrating and explaining
the purpose of the Genesis project.

And she says this torpedo
could be deposited on any

moon or other lifeless body.

And it would become
immediately sustaining to life.

And we could deposit whatever
life forms we choose upon it.

And it's just that slight, like
wording is just slightly ominous

in like our intent here is to do
with this planet what we please.

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: That is the definition
of intelligent design.

Kevin: So the hubris of the scientists…

Rob: Ah, always get 'em into trouble,
always gets them into trouble.

It's such a glorious idea, that is
really the McGuffin of the piece.

If it could do that to a dead planet, it
could do that to a living planet and it,

immediately would lose all its funding.

Kevin: No one thought they were gonna
succeed; that's the impression I get.

Until Khan was threatening
to blow stuff up.

Rob: And what species would you choose
to have exist on that planet, Kevin?

Kevin: What are you talking about?

Rob: Well as, as Carol said, we can
choose whichever species we want.

I'm relating it back!

Come on.

Kevin: Ah, of course, of course.

Rob: I'm not just speaking
weird to you, okay?

We haven't got to that
point in the podcast.

Kevin: It was sounding a little
sexy is all I have to say.

I wasn't sure.

Rob: You know I'm always gonna
try and get that talk in.

Can we talk about sex
and Star Trek this week?

No, yet.

Not yet.

Kevin: Maybe next week.

Rob: Next week's never
coming, is it Kevin?

Kevin: I like how Star Trek III
actually also starts the same way.

Star Trek III starts with a science
vessel now studying the Genesis Planet.

It's the USS Grissom floating
there, scanning for life forms.

And the drama of the opening of that
movie is a blip on a sensor panel.

And that feels very Star
Trekky as well to me.

Rob: So what about you?

What's another sciencey episode for you?

Kevin: I'm taking us into The Next
Generation for one of my very favorite

episodes of Star Trek TNG, season three,
episode four, Who Watches The Watchers.

Rob: Who Watches The Watchers?

Kevin: Like some other episodes
we've talked about before, I'll

say if you haven't seen this one,
this is essential TNG viewing.

This is a high point of the season
it finds itself in, which is already

a strong season, season three.

In Who Watches The Watchers, it starts
with a duck blind mission, where

Federation anthropologists are spying on,
effectively, a more primitive culture.

They are in a little station
embedded in a rock face, hidden by

a hologram, and they're watching
these bronze age proto-Vulcans.

So they are pointed-eared aliens, but
they are in their bronze age era of

development and the Federation scientists
are just watching them, studying them and

learning from them until the power systems
of the duck blind start going haywire.

The Enterprise is rushing to rescue
them, but doesn't get there in time.

The power systems overload, the hologram
falls down, the scientists all get

electrocuted and one rolls out the window
and is found by one of the natives.

One of the natives gets electrocuted
as well and needs medical attention.

So wrestling against the principles
of non interference, they decide

we'll beam him up and fix him up.

We'll wipe his memory before
we beam him back down.

So while he is up in sick bay, he
sees captain Picard giving orders

to his crew in a God-like fashion.

And then Dr.

Crusher does her best to erase
his memory and return him to

his home, but it doesn't take!

Rob: Of course.

Kevin: He returns to his people
with stories of The Picard, the

god who is the overseer of their
people and who must be pleased.

This relentlessly rational race has now
been poisoned by the ideas of religion.

And they start thinking, what
is the god in the sky want?

What do we need to do?

Do we need to punish someone
in order to please him?

Picard himself has to beam down
and explain to this primitive

race that I am not a god.

I am a flesh and blood
person just like you.

I am bound by mortality just like you.

And if you don't believe me, go
ahead and shoot me in the chest with

an arrow, which of course they do.

Rob: Of course they do.

Kevin: There are no phasers, there
are no ships swooping around.

This is all about science
and the prime directive.

And how do we keep this perfectly nice
race from being ruined by our scientists

unintentionally revealing themselves.

Rob: Exactly.

We talked about this pre-recording,
it has that essence of the duck blind

as well in Star Trek insurrection.

Kevin: That's right.

Yes.

Insurrection is almost a direct sequel
in terms of the way it starts with this

cold open of the duck blind revealing
itself to the natives of the population.

Rob: Whereas in this one, they
have the honorable intention

of just observing them.

Whereas in Insurrection, it's all
about, we want to take the well

of eternal life from these people.

Kevin: That cold open, though, of
Insurrection, to me, it's the strongest

opening of any Star Trek movie.

Rob: Yeah?

Kevin: I don't know if you would agree,
but the mystery of we are looking

down on this village, and the people
in the duck blind are half wearing

Federation uniforms, and half of
them are the Son'a who we haven't

met yet, but they look pretty dicey.

And then you get to see the little visuals
of the invisible scientists walking

around the village, that no one can see.

Then Data comes running down the
hill and causes absolute chaos.

Rob: And Data's doing
something he doesn't do.

He's being dangerous and violent, but
then you're going, what is all this?

Kevin: Ah, the throwing the invisible
man in the water and splashing around,

Data taking his helmet off and his
disembodied head floating there in front

of the natives, it is all so strong.

Like it is so much fun.

So unexpected, not like
anything we've seen before.

Rob: I agree.

Kevin: At least the first half of that
movie, I love without reservation.

Rob: I adore it as well as one of my
favorites, and no matter what criticism

it gets, I will stand and defend that
film, with every fiber of my meagre being.

But yes, back to Who Watches The Watchers.

It is, the beauty of Picard.

He is the diplomat.

He is there to broker a calm and
peaceful resolution to all situations.

He may end up with a arrow in his chest,
but he will get up and like Chumbawamba

he gets down and he'll get up again.

Kevin: It's a very good
Riker/Troi episode as well.

When they first find out that a
scientist has been captured, Riker

and Troi, get surgically altered to
look like the native population and

beam down and attempt to like, Hey,
we are strangers from over the hill.

We are here to help you
deal with this situation.

And they try to influence the natives.

Rob: Are they as convincing as you
just gave those lines then, Kevin?

Kevin: They did a little better.

But if you 'ship Riker
and Troi, it's a good one.

When they first beam down, they look at
each other in their surgically altered

states and have a chuckle at each other.

And it's very sweet.

They walk along, and Troi is talking
about how in this race, the female

always walks in front of the male.

And, Riker says, is that because
the females are superior?

She goes not so much, it's more like
I'm the one you have to barter with,

if you would like my male's services.

And Riker says, what kind of services?

And Troi says any kind of services.

Rob: Ohhh, that's uh, that's
some spicy flirt right there.

Now is this season— so
this is season three.

Is this still when Riker's
smooth as an Android's bottom?

This is beardy Riker.

Oh, I love a good bearded Jonathan Frakes.

Kevin: Yes.

And just like in Star Trek First
Contact where Lily gets beamed on

board the Enterprise and has that
Alice in Wonderland moment of, oh

my gosh, I'm in the future above my
planet, we have that here as well.

The leader of the natives, Nuria,
ultimately Picard in order to try to

sway them and explain the situation
beams Nuria aboard and gives her

that, that Alice in Wonderland tour
to see her planet from high above.

And to explain that technology
isn't magic, it's just technology.

And it almost works.

Rob: So is it one of
those poignant endings?

Is it, a happy ending?

Kevin: It's A happy ending.

Yeah.

They sort it out.

Of course they have broken the Prime
Directive by revealing themselves,

but that damage is done in the
opening moments of the episode.

And the whole rest of the episode
is about minimising that damage.

What can we do to not make this worse?

And by the end, the natives, or at least
that little village, fully understand

there is a starship in the sky and there
are other races that travel the stars

and we may get there one day, but they
also understand why they're not ready

for that yet, and why the Federation
must go away and hide themselves.

And one day their descendants
will join them among the stars.

So it's very inspiring.

Rob: Well look, you haven't
set me astray with TNG episodes

so far, I'll continue on.

And so should the listeners.

Kevin: I have another TNG episode, but do
you wanna take us someplace else first?

Rob: Let's go to your recommendation
to me, which I rewatched today for the

first time in a while, Children of Time.

So not only is it sciencey, but we
also dabble in a bit of, time travel,

which we've already touched on.

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: So, Deep Space Nine, it is
episode 22, near the end of season

five, where it's really this is Deep
Space Nine firing, on all cylinders.

Season five of course is, the
season of Trials and Tribble-ations,

and so many great episodes.

The 30th anniversary year
of Star Trek, obviously.

But yes, the Defiant is out
going through the gamma quadrant.

They're just about to make their way home
when, they're getting some sort of signal.

Dax in her scientific curiosity wants to
go and explore and find out what it is.

They're pulled into this planet
with, a barrier on the outside.

So many planets with barriers on
the outside that affect them, Kevin.

Draws them in, and makes them uh, not
crash, but you know, land awkwardly, and—

Kevin: So before we go any further,
I just wanna point out this moment

of the crew of Deep Space Nine being
tantalized by a scientific discovery,

it's surprisingly rare in this series.

Like I went looking.

Rob: Yeah.

And especially around about this time,
cuz they are well into the Dominion

fighting and wars and, and it's all about
battle fronts and alliances and stuff.

So to actually then go, oh, remember
we've we're scientific explorers.

And of course, as always, their scientific
curiosity gets the better of them.

They make their way through and
they find that there are inhabitants

on this planet, and they are the
descendants of the crew of the Defiant.

Kevin: Whaaaaat!!

Rob: Dun dun dun!

Kevin: What a great Star Trek idea.

Rob: That's a cold open from hell.

So they find out that, they try
and take off, it sends them back.

They go through a time loop.

Pesky time loops.

Sends them back 200 years.

They crash.

They can't escape again, so they
settle and have a life on, this planet.

However, Kira is affected by
the time loop, and she dies

a couple of weeks later.

So here's the dilemma: they have
8,000 people who are descended from

the crew of the 48 who survive.

And it's that wonderful dilemma
we have, the good of the many

outweigh the good of the one.

Are these people, will they be
killed off if the Defiant makes

its way out and they never existed?

Is that mass murder?

Because they never existed, does
that mean its means anything?

That great balance of, you know, head
and heart that Star Trek does so well.

Kevin: I love that this takes that
pattern and amps it up by 8,000 times.

What often happens is there's
been a transporter accident

and now I have a clone.

Do we kill the clone?

Rob: Yeah.

Like, Tuvix

Kevin: Yeah.

Tuvix, or Thomas Riker.

There's a…

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: We should do a whole
episode on these things.

But often it's one life that hangs in
the balance, but here they went, we

will increase the stakes exponentially.

There are 8,000 lives and everyone who led
up to that 8,000 that hang in the balance.

That entire civilization now will
no longer exist if you make the

selfish choice avoid the crash.

Rob: It's the dilemma that plays
out, and all the machinations behind

as well, because Dax's symbiont is
passed down over 200 years, so we

meet the next incarnation of Dax.

And the lying and deceit so that, that
Dax can try and save their colony, really,

their civilization, is quite interesting.

To have Dax feeling
betrayed by themselves.

It's fascinating.

And O'Brien not embracing the wonder of
it all, cuz he's, keeping himself quite

distant, Worf finding his place within,
the long line of how the Klingon species

has evolved on this particular planet.

So there's a lot going on there,
and we haven't even touched on,

Odo and Kira's, revelations.

Kevin: Old Odo gives away uh,
his younger self's love for Kira.

Rob: That's right.

And Odo finds out that she knows that he
knows that she knows that he find out from

himself from a future version of himself
that he knows that she knows that….

Yep.

It's very Star Trekky,

Kevin: It is that perfect blend of hard
science fiction and soap opera that

we come back for every single week.

Rob: There is so much soap opera-ey
stuff in there, like coming back from

the ad break and Jadzia is, you know,
going, you lied to me, you betrayed me.

But let's still talk about the
fact that the symbiont carries on.

Oh, without batting an eyelid
they go back and forth from soap

opera to sci-fi techno babble.

And I love it.

I love it.

It's great.

And you get to see René
Auberjonois in less makeup.

And it's always great to see that
beautiful man's beautiful face.

Him and Nana Visitor just
are so good together.

They work so well together, cuz
it's not like young love, puppy love

type stuff or anything like that.

These are two characters who have
gone through a war together who have

gone through, who've gone through
like occupation together, who have

had so much pain and anguish and they
both deserve to be happy, but they

just don't know how to, and it's just
powerful, so they go through all this.

Kevin: The richest blend
of will they, won't they.

Rob: Oh yeah, that final scene where
she is just outraged with the future

version of Odo that's not even there
and Odo's there going, I don't know!

I was in a bucket.

Literally, I cannot tell.

I don't know what's going on.

And she's angry and he's, it's great.

It's a great way to end the episode.

So yeah, that's my jump ahead.

Or maybe it's the same time.

It's season five.

So maybe your episode is
around about the same time.

Kevin: Oh, maybe it's not too far off.

I'm taking us back to TNG
season six, episode 19, Lessons.

Rob: Lessons.

Kevin: This is the time Captain
Picard got a girlfriend.

Rob: Hey!

Kevin: Commander Nella Darren is a
scientist onboard the ship, and most

of this episode is about Captain
Picard meeting her and falling in love.

And they date and they deal with the
sensitivities of the crew and the optics

of a captain dating another officer.

Captain Picard has a really nice therapy
session with Troi where she says,

Captain, are you asking my permission?

And he says, if I were,
what would you say?

And she says, I would say yes.

And it's just very sweet.

It is so uncharacteristic to see
Captain Picard let his guard down

and fall head over heels in love with
someone in the space of an episode.

The sciencey bit of this episode comes
right at the end, when there is a distress

call from a Federation outpost that
has, for some reason, been established

on a planet that has firestorms.

And the firestorms are twice as bad as
they usually are, so outpost is gonna

be destroyed and needs to be evacuated.

The Enterprise comes rushing in and
they won't have time to evacuate

everyone, so they hatch a plan to
put up heat shields, big deflector

screens, on the outside of the outpost.

And Nella Darren is singularly
qualified to lead this very dangerous

and hazardous mission on the planet.

So here is Captain Picard in
a position of, do I let my

girlfriend go and risk her life?

Which of course he does.

Of course he does, but you
see him wrestle with it.

You see him pacing the corridors,
listening to the comms chatter of, oh the

screens are weakening, we're gonna have
to stay here and adjust them manually.

And she has feared lost.

And Captain Picard like
immediately spirals.

He seems completely destroyed.

A lot of this episode is about the two
of them connecting around their music.

She's a piano player.

Captain Picard has a Ressikan flute
that comes from another very good

episode called The Inner Light, which
is many people's favorite episode

of Star Trek: The Next Generation.

And there's just this heartbreaking
shot where he's sitting stone faced

in his quarters, understanding that
she is dead, and he walks up to his

table and the camera swoops underneath
the glass table so you're looking up

through the table to the box of the
Ressikan flute and to his destroyed face.

And he just shuts the box, closing
himself and his emotions off from ever

letting his guard down like this again.

I won't spoil the ending, but an entire
starship full of people comes swooping

in and put themselves in harm's way to
protect a science outpost with hundreds of

people living there to study firestorms.

Why were we there?

Because it was scientifically interesting.

Who builds a habitat for hundreds of
people on a planet with firestorms.

That's what I wanna know.

Rob: When it comes to Star Trek,
there's not many relationships

that last the distance.

Stay with the show long enough,
there's always gonna be some sort

of romantic tragedy or heartbreak
that comes along the way.

And not many people, get to have a happily
ever after in the Star Trek universe.

It's that cold, hard scientific
exploration of something.

Well, nothing can stay perfect forever.

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: Let's firestorm this relationship.

Kevin: Yeah, tour to force by the
guest star who plays Nella Darren.

Not an easy assignment to come in
as a single episode, guest star

Rob: And who is that?

Who's the actress who played…

Kevin: Wendy Hughes…

Rob: Ah, Aussie Wendy Hughes!

Kevin: There you go!

Rob: The great Wendy Hughes,
Aussie actress, sadly

passed away a few years ago.

Incredible Aussie actor, who appeared
in one of my favorite TV shows of all

time, Homicide: Life On The Street,
playing the love interest for Ned

Beatty, but had a distinguished career
on the Australian screen, Careful, He

Might Hear You, one of her best films.

Kevin: A great casting choice.

She is beautiful.

You can believe Jean-Luc Picard would
fall in love with her, and at the same

time she has that gravitas of command
that you also believe that she would

lead six teams of engineers to set
up a firewall in front of an outpost

and command them all over the comms.

Rob: She has an incredible voice, too.

She had a beautiful, deep,
resonant, silky smooth voice to

match up against Patrick Stewart.

That's no easy task, but Wendy
Hughes is definitely a match for it.

Kevin: Well, there you go.

Four examples of crazy Federation
scientists being in the wrong place

for science at the wrong time.

Rob: And no examples of crazy Federation
sex, but, once we get through a

episode about transport cloning,
or we get through any other episode

that you'll just leave me hanging on…

Kevin: Lower Decks, you
know what you have to do.

All right thanks again, Rob.

Rob: Ah, Kevin, thank you so much for
putting up with me for another week.

And I think I can hear the sweet,
dulcet tones of Bridget Hadley

coming in, and that means we've
reached the end of another episode.

Kevin: We have.

Hit us up on @subspacedotfm, that
subspace D-O-T-F-M on Twitter, if

you've got a science disaster that
you would like to share with us

that we missed in Star Trek history.

Rob: Oh my gosh.

I just realized it now, like
they did a couple of reveals for

like Star Trek Day and stuff.

Carol Kane is the new chief engineer—

Kevin: All they've said is she is an
engineer, but I reckon she'll be the

chief engineer, at least for the…

Rob: Are you thinking what I'm
thinking that they're doing the

whole, Spinal Tap thing or the
Harry Potter thing that each season…

Kevin: Yeah.

I don't like it, but
I think they might be.

Rob: You're not getting Scotty
yet, so you're gonna get a

big celebrity each season.

Kevin: Star Trek has a long
history, a mysterious history of

not committing to chief engineers.

Like, TNG season one, La Forge
was not the chief engineer.

They had some random guest star
who was there for just one episode.

And they had a couple that we saw over the
course of the first season until finally

they put La Forge where he belonged.

And Discovery, likewise, we had
Stamets who was the scientist

of the mushrooms, but who was
the chief engineer of Discovery?

It was unclear, ambiguous,
and kind of still is.

Rob: And then Tig came in as well,
so there's just all these potential…

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: …of engineers, but
there's no one head.

So there's three heads, and…

Kevin: I don't understand why
they think we don't care who the

chief engineer of the Starship is.

That is an important job.

I wanna know who the Scotty is.

Rob: As always, they just do not
understand what the fans want.

Kevin: And Strange New Worlds, now
they're killing them off and giving

us a new one each season because
they wanna mix it up for some reason.

Rob: Why do they treat us so badly, Kevin?

Why do we keep on coming back?