Subspace Radio: a Star Trek podcast

Kevin: Hello, and welcome
back to Subspace Radio.

It's me, Kevin,

Rob: and me, Rob,

Kevin: and we're here to talk about Season
2 of Prodigy, episodes 6 through 10.

Rob: Yep.

We are going against the algorithm
that has been set up by Netflix.

No, we shall not binge.

We shall go in, uh, incremental, sensible
parts and we will not look ahead.

So most of you out there probably
gone ahead and watched all 20, but you

can take the slow, more respectable
path like Kevin and I are taking.

Kevin: That's right.

We are, we are in no rush to see
our futures, uh, as, uh, just as

Wesley Crusher would advise us not
to peek at our own futures, that's,

that's, we're taking that advice here

Rob: Excellent work and I'd be
very interested to hear if the

mention of said Wesley Crusher
was the big spoiler that you were

Kevin: Oh man, it so was.

That, I

Rob: that was mine too.

Kevin: how prominent that was
in the episode descriptions.

And I saw it.

I was like, the moment that I saw it,
I was like, I don't want to know that.

Rob: You know what would
have been a good spoiler?

That thing you just spoiled.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly.

But, uh, yeah, we'll have a
lot to talk about Wesley, even

though we knew he was coming.

He was a surprise in some
respects, I dare say.

Rob: Yeah, especially like, you know,
there's a little piece of me in the

back of my mind, a little bit of,
you know, a shard in my heart when

they did the final season of Picard.

You know, with all the old gang back.

I know we had him for a little
cameo at the end of season two, but

Kevin: It wasn't great though.

Rob: No, It wasn't a great cameo, it was
a shithouse season, pardon my French.

Um.

But, yeah, there was a part of me
just going, maybe, just maybe they'll

give, no, but they didn't, so.

But he's back in animated form,
beautifully voiced by the patron

saint of nerds, Wil Wheaton.

Kevin: Yeah, and this might be a big call,
but I would actually say his acting is

better here than it was in that cameo.

It's like he's, he's figured out how to
have fun with the character, or the, the,

the writing has helped him find a fun
place with this character that we did

not get in that dour season two of Picard
and, and uh, yeah, the cameo was likewise

just weighed down by this sense of
seriousness that was pleasantly gone here.

Rob: Very much so, there was a lot of
fun, and I mean, you know, I don't know

if Wil Wheaton's done much voiceover work.

I know he was a voice, uh, actor
in The Secret of NIMH, one of my

favorite animated films, when he
was a young boy, him and Shannon

Doherty, may she rest in peace.

But, um, I don't know how much animated
stuff he has done, but he is, you

know, as Kate Mulgrew has been showing,
he and her are very accomplished

with their voiceover acting work.

Kevin: All right.

So just like I did last time, uh,
I'd like to give us a fast forward

through the summaries of these five
episodes, and then we can give our,

our impressions on them as a block.

Sound good?

Rob: Yes.

Yeah.

So we had five episodes, but there were
like, there's a two parter in there.

So we've got like, so we've got,
so we've got kind of four stories.

Kevin: Oh, and just to tease where we're
going with later, in case you haven't seen

it in the episode title already, the thing
we picked out of this block of episodes

is planets that are too good to be true.

Rob: Yeah.

Um, uh, I found a little, I was a bit
stressed about how could I find it?

Yeah.

I came up with the title and then I
went, how am I going to back it up?

You know what you do?

You just find the word
"paradise" in a Star Trek title.

And then you know what?

It ain't going to be paradise.

Kevin: No, it's, uh, it's pretty much

Rob: heh heh.

Kevin: We're, we're kicking off this block
with season two, episode six, Imposter

Syndrome in which the team plots to
borrow the Infinity before it's destroyed.

They create holo doubles that prove
to be a little too good, but they

manage to make their escape thanks
to a last minute assist from Maj'el.

Then.

in Episode 7, The Fast and the
Curious, while using an abandoned

Borg transwarp conduit as a shortcut
on their way to Chakotay, the team

is captured by Maje Ekthi, an erratic
Kazon who demands that they compete

against trained pilots in a race.

When the Maje is revealed to be a ruler
of an army of robots, controlled by

an out of control training computer
in pursuit of perfection, Zero

Sacrifices themselves and damages
their containment suit beyond repair.

In episode 8, Is There in Beauty
No Truth?, Zero makes telepathic

contact with a planet of non
corporeal beings from many races.

who promise they can fix
Zero's containment suit.

The beings of the planet have all
inhabited artificial bodies, enabling

them to experience physical sensations.

The team attends the Feast of Senses,
only to discover that it ends with

a lethal celebration of the sense
of fear, and that Zero cannot leave

without their new body degrading.

Deciding they belong with their
crewmates, though, Zero decides to leave.

In The Devourer of All Things, Part
I, arriving at the rendezvous, the

team discover not Chakotay and the
Protostar, but a vault belonging to

the Travelers and Wesley Crusher.

Wesley explains that the paradox
caused by the Protostar's botched

return has created a hole in the
fabric of the multiverse, allowing

the Loom, cosmic scavengers, through
the hole to feed on all of reality.

Cornered by the creatures, Wesley escapes
with the team into a Supervisor hideout.

Janeway and the Voyager A track
the team to the planet, which

is now infested with Loom.

And in The Devourer of All
Things, Part II, Commander Tysess

leads an away team with Maj'el.

Ensign Middleton is consumed and all
record of his existence is erased, Tysess

evacuates but Maj'el stays behind and is
barely rescued by Wesley and the team.

Voyager A comes under attack by
the Loom and Janeway lures them

off the ship just in time with some
extreme shuttle piloting, ending

with her crash landing on the planet.

Maj'el turns out to be the missing
variable in Wesley's calculations,

which enables him to send the team
to the Protostar and Chakotay.

And that's where we leave it,
with Chakotay looking off into

the sunset on some distant

Rob: With a beard!

Kevin: With a beard, yeah.

He's been there for a while, I guess.

Rob: Yes, eloquently put.

Um, for me, there's a lot of
other sci fi stuff that just is

screaming out in these episodes.

A lot of stuff going, ooh, that was done
in this, ooh, that was done in that.

That's no derogatory comment to these,
uh, stories, it's like, it's a good

thing like what with, um Strange New
Worlds have done of going let's lean

into good old classic sci fi elements
and components and give it a new twist

and sorta like that honoring element.

Kind of like what The Orville
did did as well when they figured

out what they wanted to do.

But yeah, there's some like
classic sci fi stuff here to

really sink their teeth into and um

Kevin: Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, watching this, thinking of the
conversation you and I would have, I could

not help but see Doctor Who all up and
down and sideways through these episodes.

Especially with Wesley, uh, you
know, wearing a, a coat and running

through hallways with a companion,
like, it was very Doctor Who in parts.

Rob: Yes, and especially Wesley Crusher
being the patron saint of nerds, as I've

said, has, you know, leaned in heavily,
him and his wife have leaned in heavily to

all manner of Doctor Who cosplay and Star
Trek cosplay and all manners of cosplay.

Um, but yeah, especially The Loom,
The Loom is very much like a modern

Doctor Who story, um, Father's Day
in the Christopher Eccleston era, um,

where, you know, Rose, the Doctor's
companion, goes back on her own timeline

and saves her dad when she shouldn't.

And so, therefore the Reapers appear, who
are these time monsters that eat away the,

the, the time paradox that has happened.

So, with The Loom appearing,
I went, yes, that's very, uh,

that's very Doctor Who esque.

Kevin: Uh, starting at the start
of this block the, uh, the Imposter

Syndrome episode with all the holograms
and which ones are the real ones

or which ones are the fake ones?

Like, I really enjoyed that.

It was extremely entertaining.

It felt like this season's Mindwalk.

Uh, like the episode from season one
where Dal and, uh, uh, Janeway swapped

bodies and a lot of comedy came of it.

This felt like a similar, this
was the comedy of the season.

And it wasn't maybe quite as successful
as that season one episode, but still, I

put it right up there as very effective.

Rob: Yeah, and it's a good old body swap
one as well, which is, uh, you know,

they've, as you said, they've kind of
returned to, but they give, give it a

little bit of a, a twist at the end.

Kevin: The Fast and the
Curious was probably the, one

of the weaker of the bunch.

Like I did enjoy watching the little
shuttles zipping around the race course

there, but apart from the eye candy,
there wasn't a lot to this episode.

It was a little unclear to me that,
that computer seemed very Borg y.

Rob: Yeah!

Kevin: and in motivation and the fact
that it had, it was scavenging from

a Borg transwarp conduit further,
like, confused me of, is this meant

to be a, uh, an entity of the Borg or
a Borg corruption of a Kazon system,

but it was never made explicit.

And so, uh, it was, yeah, just, I was
not really sure what box to classify this

computer in other than, evil computers.

Um, and, but, uh, it seems like this
episode was basically a means to an end.

And it was, the end was damage
Zero's containment, uh, suit in order

to set up the following episode.

Rob: And sets up, um, something that
we've kind of been talking about when

it comes to Zero, and sort of like, is
there going to be some way to normalize

him if I do an inverted commas?

And this is the thing we
were kind of worried about.

So, um, also I mentioned to the Kazon
appearing and I went, oh, it's a Kazon.

Yeah, it's a Kazon.

Kevin: Doesn't really
matter that it's a Kazon.

Just is a

Rob: it could have been anything,
but I'm going, all right,

you're going with the Kazon.

That's interesting.

Kevin: It's the right
corner of the galaxy.

It's nice that as we go back into this,
you know, Voyager era region that we're

seeing some of the Voyager era races

Rob: Exactly.

Kevin: that's, that's cool stuff.

Is There in Beauty No Truth?, the heart
of our "too-good-to-be-true planets"

themes, I, I didn't really like this one.

Again, the visuals were certainly
there, they always are with this

series, but the story irked me a little.

I think we already talked a bit, like,
I think you were talking about it

there, is this, this idea that, uh, Zero
is attracted to corporeal existence,

expanding that idea to basically
all non corporeal entities crave

the seduction of physical sensation.

It, it feels a little, um, to,
to borrow a phrase from, uh, Star

Trek VI, it makes the Federation
seem like a homo sapiens only club.

Do you remember that line?

It's, it's this, it's, it's an odd
thing that, uh, Star Trek, is ostensibly

about embracing diversity in its modern
incarnation, and yet there is this,

this, uh, lingering prejudice for a
certain form of life, uh, baked into

the fiction, the fictional universe.

I mean, it's hard to get too upset
about non corporeal beings being

hard done by given that that is
not a thing in, in real life.

But if you accept Star Trek for
on its own rule set, then you have

to judge it by those same rules.

And that feels like racism
in the future to me.

Rob: Yeah.

It's weird.

I think it's, you know, I think it's more
of a, they're getting frustrated with

the fact of, okay, we've created this non
corporeal creature and there's so many

possibilities of what we can do with it.

And they've kind of backed themselves
into a corner of just going, let's do

something that we've already done before,
which is like with Data, like with, um,

the Doctor and Voyager, let's, let's have
this trope of, um, you know, what does it

mean to be human, or wanting to be human.

And I know I've talked about
there's a lot of big sci fi tropes

repeated here, um, in different
franchises and different writing.

But to fall back on something that
they have repeated several times

before did seem a bit lazy and, um,
there's so much more that you could

explore like they've they've literally
contained him in his own shell and

now they've contained him in corporeal
form that's gonna, you know, fade off.

It's um, yeah, it's a great concept
that they've kind of gone uh, we

don't know what to do with it.

So let's just put him in a let's put him
in a let's put him in a round ball and

then let's put him with a couple of legs.

Kevin: it was also just a little
bit muddled, this storyline.

The simultaneous reveals of they are
going to run through a field and maybe

get themselves killed and if you leave
the planet your your body will degrade

and die and those were kind of presented
as one atomic surprise, but they're

really two completely different ideas.

Uh, and it's almost like the surprise
that your body would degrade was not

enough to drive drama on screen, and
so they attached this, this fun run

through the field of dangerous flowers,
uh, to it in order to create some

excitement on the screen in the episode.

Rob: Yeah, yeah.

For me it was, um, talking about
inspiration from different sci

fi, there's a great sci fi comedy
series that you should all know,

everyone, called Red Dwarf.

And there's a great episode, which is
a too good to be true, in season six,

called Legion, where they show up and
there's this, uh, this humanoid form,

but, you know, entity that's kind
of a robot, kind of not, and gives

them all the desires that they want.

And they go, well if, yeah,
we're gonna have to leave now.

And he goes, nonsense, you'll
stay here until the day you die.

And you go, oh, great.

So I did feel that sense of, here
you go Zero, here's your new body.

Oh, but you can't leave, you're
staying in this body, but on this

planet, until the day you die.

Kevin: And also every once in a while you
have to run through a field and maybe die.

Just to feel something,
just to feel something.

Rob: Yes.

But, other than that…

Kevin: The Devourer of All Things,
the two parter at the culmination

here felt especially strong to me.

I think the first time through, I was
kind of going, I don't know if I'm on

board with this kooky Wesley Crusher.

But on second watch, I just surrendered
myself to it, and I have to admit,

it is well written, well performed.

It does a lot of exposition
without getting bogged down.

I enjoy it for what it is.

Rob: He walks that balance so
beautifully now, Wesley, um, uh, Wil

Wheaton, to be able to be a part of
this universe, but also be a fan of it.

There's been many incidents of it, like,
uh, Matthew Waterhouse in Doctor Who

appearing as Adric, um, uh, one of the
actors in Stargate Universe was a huge

fan, and then became a character like
that in the show, where, and, you know,

uh, Wil Wheaton is the perfect embodiment
of that, who is, who's like, breathed

so much life into it, and so much life
was given to him, especially with his

problems at home, and so Star Trek
became his new family, and respected him,

and treated him better than, you know,
he's been open and honest about that.

And so to come back into it, um, and
hosting like behind the scenes, uh,

documentaries and having talk show panels,
um, connected to all these seasons.

And he hosts these things like podcasts
and stuff like that with all these

actors, but then to come back into it
and his version of Wesley Is like the

all seeing, all knowing, time traveling,
dare I say, Doctor Who type character,

but still has that nerdy type love
and joy of knowing all these facts.

And it's a beautiful balance of going,
He's the Star Trek nerd, but he's

also this multi dimensional, powerful
creature manipulating the timelines.

It's a, it's a, I think they got the
balance beautiful, and you can see,

the age and experience of, um, Wil
Wheaton come out in this, yeah, much far

better than his appearance at the dour
end of a dour season of a, you know,

dirge, uh, second season of Picard.

Kevin: There were some subtle moments
I really liked, like when he said,

when he looked at the jury rigged,
you know, time containment device on

Gwyn's arm and said, I just want to,
no, no, The Doctor's done a fine job.

You'll be just fine… for now.

It was just, Um, there was
something in the writing that made

it feel especially naturalistic.

That moment of I'll almost
mess with this, but maybe not.

Like that whole moment could have been
dropped and nothing would have been lost,

but they, they created that beat to, I
guess, highlight Wesley's fallibility and

self doubt and the fact that he's second
guessing everything he's doing point.

And, and I really enjoyed that stuff.

It made it, it lifted him beyond,
like you said, this all knowing, all

seeing, uh, super entity into someone
who is still flying by the seat of

his pants and, uh, getting stuff wrong
and making mistakes along the way.

Rob: The stakes were real.

That's the excellentness of the writing,
to actually, I'm there going, no, no, no.

Wesley has all this experience
within, you know, different

dimensions and times, but he's just
a human, and he can, he's fallible.

So, unlike Doctor Who, who, you know,
when you see Doctor Who, uh, scared,

that's when it's a good episode.

Most of the time he's written like
he can just solve every problem.

Um, he or she or them.

Um, But to have Wesley there going, I'm
improvising here, I've got to struggle,

and getting to the next point, or finding
a hiding space, and sorting stuff out,

and then the sheer luck of, you know,
another character showing up, and so

therefore going, no, that's the variable,
okay, this works here, really working

on his feet, and the believability
of going, this could go pear shaped,

and the real threat of the Loom, um,
really manifested itself over two

episodes to really keep that tension up.

It was, yeah, really good stuff.

Kevin: I said in our last episode,
the fact that they were using the

improbability of what was happening
as a plot point, rather than it.

being left uncommented on and
therefore, being unbelievable

to the audience was nice.

And this block of episodes, and
particularly Wesley's explanation

of what he's trying to achieve,
really cements that of, um, This

sequence of events that we are now
about to see has been specifically

chosen from infinite possibilities.

It is the single path that
makes resolution possible.

And this kind of, I worry a little bit
that this, this is now justification for

the most improbable sequence of events
to come like anything can happen now.

And if it seems at all unbelievable,
they go, of course it is.

This is the one in a million
chance that Wesley spoke of.

So I worry a little bit where the drama
is going to come from now that we know

that we're on that path where everything
will go right, but the writers have

been doing a good job of writing within
that frame already this season, so I

kind of trust them to keep the focus
on the characters so that even if the

plot is unbelievable, the impact it has
on the characters is worth watching.

Rob: And it's, you know, like we've
said many times before, and I've quoted,

uh, Dean Pelton from Community many
times, writing time travel is very hard.

Um, and to not make it just a cop out
or an easy, you know, get out of jail

free card, they've been working very
hard on, as you said, you know, using

it as to move the plot forward as
opposed to pushing it aside and just,

wishing it away with a wave of the hand.

Kevin: The one thing that I didn't quite
like was how quickly Janeway recognized

Wesley Crusher, despite the scruffy
beard unusual costume and the fact

that he was a kid on a starship that
Janeway had nothing to do with, apart

from its important role in history.

That she would, uh, at a glance
from the side go, Wesley Crusher?

I'm like, eh, I don't know.

This, this is again one of those small
galaxy problem moments that I think it

would have been nicer to create just a
moment of introduction where he said,

where maybe he recognizes her because
he knows all of history and she is

a very important historical figure.

Uh, he could have said, Admiral
Janeway, it's me, Wesley Crusher.

And she'd say, From the Enterprise?

You know, something like that
would have worked better.

Rob: Yeah.

It did seem very much a
case of, uh, let's just,

Kevin: Everyone knows each other cause
yeah, they're stars on a TV show.

Rob: Exactly.

Kevin: Anything else you wanted to talk
about in this, this block of episodes?

Rob: I'm very excited
to see where it goes.

Like we're halfway through, so we've
still got, you know, a lot to get through.

And, um, and now that we know, cause
we have been talking about the fact

of, you know, Chakotay's out there
and are we going to get back to him?

And, but now, um, Chakotay
is, yeah, they're there.

They're on the top of

Kevin: We're there and there's a whole
second half of the season to come.

So yeah, it feels like it's moving along
quickly enough that, um, instead of seeing

the inevitable finish line and counting
the episodes until we get there, it feels

like we keep getting to things before
I expect them, and it throws us into

the unknown beyond, which is exciting.

I'm also really liking the
variety of these episodes.

Like, just in this mix, there's some great
standalone stories, some like, you know,

adventure of the week sort of things.

And, you, and they feed and
lead back into our big finish.

Uh, it sure feels like these five
episode blocks really is how this

season was conceived because that,
that, rhythm, uh, is, is even

stronger here after episode 10.

So I wouldn't be surprised if, uh,
episode 15 is a similar, big beat finish.

Rob: Definitely.

There's some nice little moments in
there as well, like with the Loom's

just taking away one of the crew members
and everyone else not remembering

the, but, um, that was, yeah, that
type of sci fi, um, chilling type

of an entire life is gone and no one

Kevin: Yeah.

Bit of trivia there, Ensign
Middleton is named for and

voiced by one of the producers of
season one of Star Trek Prodigy.

So cameo, cameo disappearance,

Rob: Wow.

He's very much aware of, uh, uh, a, a,
a major streamer, you know, forgetting

you and wiping you from their existence.

Um, and yeah, and there, and there's
a bit of a hotness building up between

our now corporeal character and a
certain, um, Vulcan character, dare I

Kevin: Yeah.

Maj'el is, uh, more and
more charming, I'd say.

It feels like the, the actor and the
character are finding, finding their

feet and, um, There's starting to be
more than that Vulcan chill, but like a

personality beyond it that is enjoyable.

Um, and, uh, yeah, that, that moment,
um, in the, in the Supervisors'

office, by the way, an amazingly
faithful recreation of Gary Seven's

office from Assignment: Earth, uh,
the, uh, TOS episode in the 1960s.

is amazing what they've
done with CG there.

Um, but yeah, when, when they're
on the couch and Maj'el's in their

lap, and she smiles up like a barely
Vulcan quirky smile up at Zero.

It's, it's, uh, very charming.

Rob: is.

It's very charming.

And, um, especially because
they've been trying to push, you

know, Dal and Gwyn, uh, on and off
for the last season and a half.

Um, yeah.

So this is, this is done in a

Kevin: There's actual chemistry here.

I feel like Dal and Gwyn, I have yet to
see the chemistry between Dal and Gwyn.

Rob: I keep on saying, Gwyn,
you're too good for him, okay?

Liked, um, like Dal grew on me
in those five episodes, again,

um, but I'm there going come on
Gwyn, you can do better, come on.

Kevin: Well, let's talk
about, uh, not quite paradise.

Rob: quite paradise, if it's in Star
Trek, if the colony or the planet

looks too good to be true, the truth
of the matter is, it probably is.

Kevin: So based on the word
paradise, I'm guessing you've got

an original series episode for

Rob: Um, well that was one that you kind
of talked about, the, with, uh, yes, so

I skipped ahead to, uh, my old faithful.

Kevin: I was thinking of This Side of
Paradise, which is, uh, a different

original series paradise episode.

That's the one, uh, where Spock, gets,
uh, drugged by spores and gets all lovey

dovey emotional and he's hanging from
the trees and I, I have not watched this

episode lately, so we won't dive into
it deeply, uh, long story short, it is a

colony on which everyone is deliriously
happy and apparently immortal, um, but

you can never leave because the the spores
that make you happy and immortal don't

last if you leave everyone stays on it.

And there's radiation
it bad idea to stay as

Rob: Very 60s sci fi.

What is it?

Radiation!

Kevin: It's one of these Spock gets
emotional episodes that the fans really

loved back in the day, and Spock is
insubordinate to the captain when the

captain tries to, uh, reason with him.

And, uh, yeah, it's, it's very enjoyable.

It's a good episode, I think, worth a
rewatch, but I haven't watched it lately.

But definitely matches our template
of, uh, too good to be true colonies

with Paradise in the episode name.

Rob: Excellent.

Kevin: That's, uh, Season 1, Episode 25,
for anyone who wants to go looking for it.

Rob: Wonderful.

Well, I'll jump ahead to my
show, uh, Deep Space Nine.

We're going season two episode
15 and it's just called Paradise.

Kevin: Ooh, I don't remember
this one, so refresh my memory,

Rob: I remember this one because
it's, uh, the one episode on my, uh,

DVD disc collection that skipped and
I can't watch that episode, so I had

Kevin: Oh

Rob: and watch it on Netflix.

So like all, like a couple of, there's
a scratch on it, so like a couple of my

discs of The West Wing, I have to go watch
it when it's on one of the streamers,

and so I was going through Deep Space
Nine on, I got all seven on DVD, through

like a really cheap deal through Sanity.

Anybody remember,
everybody remember Sanity?

Wow.

Uh, but I got to episode 15 and the
disc started skipping and I went, noooo!

So I had to go watch it.

Anyway, so this is, um, uh, Sisko and
O'Brien end up on a colony of people

living all rustic and all, uh, peaceful
and harmonious and stuff like that,

but someone there is sick and they go
to help them with their technology and

the person in charge of the ship, of
the colony goes, no, we have rejected

all forms of technology and modern, uh,
science and all that type of stuff and

you will contaminate our person, so they
will leave it to whatever to heal them.

And, uh, Sisko and O'Brien kind of
fight back, um, and they are punished

for it and they have to sort of
like help out around the colony,

um, to be a part of this process.

Kevin: I have vivid memories of
Sisko being forced to work the

fields and the optics of that
being especially disturbing.

Rob: Yes, and they've also got a,
um, a hotbox, like, you know, so out

in the blazing sun and you locked in
box and, uh, Sisko is like, you know,

you have to remove your uniform and
put on our clothes and, uh, reject

where you come from, and Sisko refuses
and puts himself back in the box.

Kevin: How did they end up on this?

Did they go to the colony to
provide aid or was it a crash

Rob: um, uh, they're on a reconnaissance,
uh, they beam down to the planet,

and then, you know, uh, radiation!

Or, you know, something interferes with
the technology so they can't beam back up.

So they have they destroy a relay that's
been set up that buffers everything.

So, O'Brien destroys that, and so they can
use their phasers and stuff at the end.

But, um, they take the people who, like,
cause the, you know, the death of the

woman who died and they take them back
up and the others say no, we're staying

here because this is better than what we
have, so it's that poetic, grim ending

of going, you can go back into society
and they go, no, no, no, we've, you

know, whether it's brainwashing or, yeah,
indoctrination or whatever, but they,

the rest of the colony decide to stay.

Kevin: It's an especially TNG ish story.

Like this is early in Deep Space Nine
before I feel like it had really found

its identity and the types of stories
that it is especially good at telling.

This almost feels like a
leftover Next Gen script.

I don't know if you agree.

Rob: They do a lot of those
in season one and two.

It isn't until like near the end
of season two where they go, Let's

try this thing called the Dominion.

So like the season, there's a big
thing at the end of season two.

Um, when I went to back and re watch
I went, Oh, I thought they came in

later, but no, it's that early on.

But definitely in season one and
two they haven't, they've gone,

yeah, let's do a space station.

But then they do a lot of episodes
where they go, Oh, let's get in a

runabout and go onto a different planet.

Kevin: Yeah.

We, we, we, we can do ships too.

We how to that.

Rob: But yeah, this very much feels
like a Next Generation leftover as

opposed to the identity it found itself.

Kevin: Yeah, they're on a Runabout
and they find an M class planet

that would be great to colonize.

That is not a Deep Space Nine set up.

Rob: That is not Sisko's job.

He's got something else to do.

Kevin: Report it and move on.

on.

cause O'Brien was there.

He was like, Oh, we used to do
this all the time the Enterprise.

Let me show you how it's

Rob: Come on.

This is how we did
things for seven seasons.

Well, he stayed for five seasons, I think.

Kevin: The leader of the colony,
Alixus, is played by Gail Strickland

and, uh, one of those thankless villain
roles where she seems Kind of strong

but welcoming at the beginning and
very quickly shows a dark side and is

absolutely irredeemable by the end.

Quite a, quite a nice, quite a nice job I
thought she does of walking that balance.

Rob: Yeah, early days of Sisko of,
um, you know, really showing his, uh,

strength and defiance and, you know,
uh, the will of being put into, you

know, putting his body and his mind
in harrowing situations and he has to,

um, stay firm to what he believes in.

Kevin: anything else about
paradise aspect of this?

Like how, how long does that last where
it's like, Ooh, this could be a nice

Rob: Yeah, it, it, it's, it's, it's
a weird one because it's not sort of

like, it's not completely paradise,
as in you have everything you desire.

It's more the paradise of the simple
life of going back to, you know, join

the simple pleasures of, of just farming
and living on the land and not having

to worry about the hustle and bustle.

So it's that sort of like,
almost Norman Rockwell version

Kevin: Yeah.

It's a nice questioning of that,
uh, that fetish, if you will, that

so often in modern life, we're
like things used to be better, you

know, back when we had tetanus.

Rob: You know, where we, you know,
where the minorities that were

persecuted didn't speak up so much.

Kevin: That's right.

Rob: gosh.

But yeah, so it's not completely
paradise in the sense of you

can have everything you desire.

It's this case of, Yeah, living the simple
life is, you know, isn't that beautiful?

Um, but you can never leave.

It's not one of the best episodes, but
it's one of the most memorable ones.

It's not, as you said, it's not
quintessentially Deep Space Nine.

It's very much generic.

Uh, You know, travel to a planet, find
out that planet isn't as beautiful as they

say it is, and then try and get off that
planet, which is very un-Deep Space Nine.

Kevin: Yeah, it's funny.

I've picked one from early next gen
as well that is similarly a somewhat

janky episode, but charming for it.

Um, and I think it's also probably no
coincidence that the episode of Prodigy

that we're inspired by, Is There in
Beauty No Truth, is also a not quite

right episode that doesn't quite work.

This feels like it's such a, a
template for Star Trek that it is

almost a cliché by definition, and
makes it really hard to rise above

that cliché and tell a completely
functional story on, on that framework.

So the one I chose is Justice,
uh, Season 1, Episode 8 of The

Next Generation, which, um, fans
will remember as the orgy planet.

Rob: Is that where they, where
they're barely dressed and they go

Kevin: They're barely dressed.

Everyone runs.

Rob: Yes, I remember Riker running,
very, yeah, very happy to be running

with half naked men and women.

Kevin: They all wear, uh, white
outfits with lots of cutouts

and lots of skin showing.

The all have their nipples

Rob: Yeah, I do remember
a lot of side boob.

Kevin: There's a lot of side boob.

A lot of conspicuous massaging
with oils in the council chamber.

Like they say, let's go
to the council chambers.

And when they get there, it
is a literal orgy going on.

Uh, and it, it's, I feel like this is
the peak of Gene Roddenberry showing

everything he wanted to do with Star
Trek, but usually couldn't get away with.

Um, so not only does this have like
the sexually freed culture, uh, that

seemed to be Gene's fantasy way back to
the 1960s, but it also had a god thing.

They actually used the words god thing
in this episode, and this, this planet

is overseen by a transdimensional
being that exists in orbit and feels

responsibility for the wellbeing
of the natives on the planet below

who worship it as a god thing.

And that, that idea of what is a
god, what is worship of a god, what

if god is just an alien being with
science beyond our understanding,

that is also a continual fascination
for Gene Roddenberry over the years

that he comes back to again and again,
perhaps most poignantly in Star Trek V.

What we have here is basically the same
building blocks of Star Trek V, plus

orgies, or at least as close as you could
get away with on primetime TV in 1987.

Rob: I'm trying not to overthink it
too much about, like, but it is that

thing in Star Trek, which we talked
about before, with sex, um, is that, you

know, it seems like the dangers of sex.

So it seems, you know, I don't want to be
befouling the name of Roddenberry, but you

know, he seemed to have a lot of issues
with sex and sexuality and making it sort

of like something that was sinister, as
opposed to, you know, Oh, it's free, it's,

it's free love here, but at what cost?

Kevin: I'm interesting in querying
that, because I, I want to say

that the, the sexual freedom of
the inhabitants of this planet is

almost beside the point to the plot.

The plot could have happened
entirely without it.

It is just there for set dressing, or
set undressing, as the case may be.

They beam down, there's lots of,
like, close hugs, and, you know,

Worf is, is hugged by, uh, this, the
strange woman, he goes, Nice planet.

And Wesley Crusher, this is a very
much a Wesley Crusher episode, which is

part of why I chose it, Wesley Crusher
is intensely uncomfortable, uh, as,

as he tries to navigate just how much
should he be leaning into the native

culture here and doing as the Romans do?

And how much should he be, you
know, being, a 16 year old boy, as

he is at this point in the series.

There, there is a lot of, you
know, people writhing together

on the bench in the background,
none of that plays into the plot.

The plot here is very much about
justice, just like the title

of the episode would suggest.

And Wesley accidentally falls into a
bed of flowers, um, and this breaks

a minor law, but it turns out that
the peace that they have found in

this culture is a result of extremely
draconian law where if you break any

law, no matter how minor, uh, you run
the risk of being executed for it.

There is a part of the planet at any
given time that is an enforcement zone,

and if you break any law in one of those
zones at the time you are put to death.

Rob: He's playing a ball game
and, you know, despite, he wasn't

in the council chambers, so it
wasn't that type of ball game.

It was outside.

Kevin: Yes.

He tries to explain baseball to
people who've never heard of baseball

and he talks about how you need
a long stick about this wide and,

and the hand gestures are a little
uncomfortable in the context as well.

But, um, it's all completely
innocent, um, I, I stand by that.

Rob: Ha ha ha!

Kevin: Look, I will stipulate to Gene
Roddenberry having an uncomfortable and at

times problematic relationship with sex.

I think he managed to keep that
out of this script, mostly, and

mostly used it as set dressing in
this script to make a planet of

the week more titillating to visit.

Rob: I can see a writer's room of
them there going, maybe, uh, D.

C.

Fontana was there, and she goes, well,
maybe we can do one about draconian

laws and about an idyllic world,
and they're all doing this, but,

you know, they do something minor,
and they have to be executed, and

Gene just comes and goes, uh, sex.

Sex.

It's got to be sex.

Kevin: I've already
bought all of the lube.

So everyone get started.

Rob: I've got it, okay?

It's out of the budget.

It's all, it's got to be in this now.

Kevin: I think what's charming about
this show or this episode is just

the fact that it is quite a, um, a
compact, straightforward morality tale.

Like Wesley gets into trouble, the
planet maintains its paradise by

enforcing laws without question.

Picard beams down and makes a
speech that says justice cannot

exist as long as laws are absolute.

The powerful alien is swayed by
the speech and they are allowed to

beam up and go on their merry way.

The end.

And they throw in a lot of sex
in the background to pad out the

remaining 20 minutes of the episode.

But it's, it's, it's a fun, like, the
nice thing about early episodes of

Star Trek is they are often simple
and straightforward and it is a very

pure example of Star Trek on paper.

It's a morality tale wrapped
in a science fiction premise.

Rob: Very much so.

And it's a case of judging somebody else
from our standards as opposed from theirs.

Kevin: Gates McFadden does some nice
work as Wesley's mum, obviously.

She's on the ship and gets news that
her son is, uh, going to be executed

and does a nice job of, like, trying
to maintain her professionalism and

work through the situation while
choking back tears, and she snaps

at Picard on a couple of occasions.

She snaps at Data, who, who
admits, wow, I'm, uh, you're right,

Captain, I do tend to babble.

It's just like, good, good early
character building stuff here as well.

Rob: Excellent.

Yeah.

And especially in that this,
you know, this is a season one.

So Picard is still very, you
know, very stiff and stern

and, and a little bit crusty.

So to have Gates be able to, you
know, let loose a bit and go, you

know, show some emotion to everybody.

That's a, a great step.

I do remember, I do remember that
episode very much when I was a

young man watching Star Trek.

I'm going,

Kevin: Yeah, it would be
seared into your synapses.

Rob: is seared into somewhere.

That's for sure.

Kevin: And look, just in case there was
any doubt that this episode belongs on

our list of too good to be true planets,
the final line in the cold open of

this episode is Picard saying about the
planet, Well, let's just hope this doesn't

turn out to be too good to be true.

Rob: To quote Andre Braugher in
Brooklyn Nine Nine, VINDICATION!

Kevin: That's the only one I brought.

Did you bring…?

Rob: I've got one more.

I know it's not really classic, but
it is, and it is one we have talked

about before, but god, it's a doozy.

It's an amazing one.

So we'll just talk about it briefly.

Um, the first season of Strange
New Worlds, episode six, let's talk

about the masterpiece that is Lift
Us Where Suffering Cannot Reach.

Uh, incredible episode that is, you
know, it is too good to be true.

This perfect society that is founded
on the most horrifying of sacrifices,

um, and, the worst, you know, the
worst sacrifice, we have to watch it.

We are just as helpless as Pike
watching this young person being,

you know, put to their death to
energize and save an entire planet.

It is the quintessential too good
to be true, and see the cost of it

is played out beautifully in this
strong opening for Strange New Worlds.

Kevin: I have to go back and watch this
one, uh, and I don't know if you've

watched it lately, but I do remember
enjoying it at the time, but when I

think back on it, the broad strokes
of it, are a little suspect to me.

What made this society so
good, so too good to be true?

I only have vague memories of, like,
platforms suspended in air, and it's

a very kind of, liberal artsy sort of
society, where, where people get to

be scientists, and artists and things.

And I don't remember quite what
the nature of this utopia was.

Can

Rob: Yeah.

It was that very much a case of, you
know, science is forward, art is forward.

Um, you know, there was medicine and
culture and all that type of stuff was

quite advanced and, you know, people
lived and were healthy, healthy living

and, uh, you know, lived past the
usual time and all that type of stuff.

Kevin: I think what bothered me is,
if as is revealed in that episode,

and spoilers for season one of Strange
New Worlds, if you are going to power

your planet by stealing the life of
innocent young people every now and

then, you should do, you should be a
little more judicious with your use of

power than suspending all your buildings
in midair for no apparent reason.

Like, it just seemed wasteful.

It seemed uneconomical.

You could stretch those young
person sacrifices a lot further

than I felt like they were.

Rob: Instead of yeah, you could
expand the amount of time between each

if suspens Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're being

Kevin: They clearly
didn't feel bad about it.

They were taking it for granted as a power

Rob: Oh, I think we can remember,
they did not take it there's You know,

those people rebelling trying to free
the kids, but the majority of the

population, oh yeah, they'd signed
their, they'd signed their life away.

They'd made their deal with the devil.

They were very happy with, to sacrifice
quite a lot of children so they

could keep their floating buildings.

Kevin: Well, there you go.

Yeah, that is, that is definitely
a modern incarnation of the

too good to be true planet.

Rob: Yeah, and that's, um, we've

Kevin: There's always something wrong.

If they don't have problems,
they just have secret problems.

Yeah, why are we there?

Rob: Exactly.

Exactly.

Relate back to Doctor Who as well.

If they have a beautiful
time, why is it being shown?

It's not going to be shown.

That's all the adventures
they have off screen.

Kevin: To explore strange new worlds,
find out what's wrong with them,

and destroy their evil computers.

That's, that's what is really

Rob: And have weird ideas
of sexual liberalism.